Monday, October 30, 2006

Another Roberts Bombshell

In an interview with Good Morning America, Kim Roberts offers for the first time an indication that the Hoax may have been hatched shortly after the two dancer’s left the lacrosse party. According to Ms. Roberts, the accuser asked her to inflict marks on her in the minutes following their departure.

Roberts said she told the woman,
"Get out of my car, get out of my car."
"I … push on her leg. I kind of push on her arm,"
"And clear as a bell, it's the only thing I heard clear as a bell out of her was, she said — she pretty much had her head down, but she said plain as day — 'Go ahead put marks on me. That's what I want, go ahead.' ''
When asked to account for Ms. Robert’s failure to offer this incredibly shocking detail previously, her attorney, Mark Simeon explained that Ms. Roberts somehow did not realize the significance of this request made by the accuser.

"Roberts' attorney, Mark Simeon, said she never shared what she says were the accuser's final comments with police, not realizing their significance at the time. He said she would be willing to take a lie detector test about the new information."
“Simeon told ABC News that she has never shared this new information with authorities simply because she was never asked.”
"She hasn't spoken to authorities beyond that very first [March 20] interview that police conducted,'' Simeon said. "She's never met with the DA and has never been called back for a follow-up interview.''
Linda Fairstein, who “headed the Manhattan District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit for more than two decades” and is “widely considered a pioneer in the field of sex crimes prosecution” expressed incredulity at the fact that Mr. Nifong had yet to interview the accuser and seemed to assume that Ms. Robert’s would naturally have been interviewed on multiple occasions.
"In terms of any prosecution, it's troubling when a witness who has been interviewed many times comes up with a completely new statement,'' Fairstein told ABC News. "At some point in a prosecutorial interview, she would have been asked to give them anything she knew, any scrap of information that she had.''
"Fairstein told ABC News she was shocked to learn last week that Nifong has yet to interview the accuser."
"That is just against the progress that's been made in this very specialized field,'' she said. "It belies anything a prosecutor would do before making charges. There was no need to rush to the charging judgment in this case. … This whole train should have been slowed down and everybody interviewed before charging decisions. To have witnesses appear on a media program revealing information that the prosecutor doesn't know is stunningly inappropriate.''


Anonymous said...

This story just might leave a mark.....

Tony Soprano said...

Where are the Federal Authorities?

Where is the Governor of North Carolina?

Where is the outrage in the Media?

Why aren't news crews sitting outside of Patrick Baker's office asking him how this can continue?

Why aren't they outside of Nifong's office?

Where are the safeguards against one man political and personal persecutions using the full power of State Government?

This is more than an outrage! This is unacceptable in our country and Nifong must be held accountable !

Tony Soprano

Anonymous said...

Glad Kimmie is making more people aware of this Hoax, but she did the interview from California this morning. Isn't she supposed to be wearing an ankle bracelet and on house arrest?

Anonymous said...

This case keeps get stranger and stranger. Who could write such fiction? It seems a shoes drops every day undermining Nifong and his keystone cops.

Todd said...

No one could write this fiction because fiction ultimately has to make sense.

justice58 said...


You all can gag on that info from Kim Pittman this morning. What a liar?? How dare her??

After 7 months, she decides to come clean. It's laughable and you know it. Who paid her? I want to know so that all can be thrown in jail.

I hope that you peole aren't counting on Mike Nifong to drop this case. It won't happen. You see, we're NOT falling for this BS. The voters are electing Mike Nifong as the next DA. End of story.

Sorry folks, but you lose big time. Your little 60 show didn't work and someone paid Kim to lie in order to hinder people from voting Mike Nifong in office.

Kim is a lying money hungry B**ch. She will sell her soul for a dollar.

Anonymous said...

This little flash in the pan appearance of Kim Roberts may on closer inspection be a little fishy at best. Her lawyer is Mark Simeon who has endorsed Mike Nifong for DA. She is probably trying to disqualify herself as a witness by changing her story as often as it will be heard in order to help the DA. Just a thought?

Anonymous said...

Justice 58 and Anon
You sound a little desperate now that the truth is emerging-and there is much more to come! Is that wet sensation around your ankles the water from a sinking boat-or are you losing bladder control?

Anonymous said...

My, my, my. Kim's a liar? And the accuser who told a number of different stories is not? "Justice" 58, get a clue already, before you have a nervous breakdown.

justice58 said...

anonymous 1:48pm

Nervous breakdown??? Are you kidding me??? The duke 3 and their lowlife defense team is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. They can't get this case to go away. Do you see 'breaking news" that the victim has recanted? Didn't think so. Oh My God, you must be scared. The voters in Durham see right through this little stunt. Won't work baby. Nothing I have heard or seen can make me change my view of things. NOTHING. I don't believe a word from that lying money hungry B**ch.

Do you honestly think a jury will believe her? Oh h*ll NO.

The duke 3 are cowards that won't own up to what they've done. It's time they face the music and it's not going to be pretty. But, just keep on wishing this crap is changing the public's opinion about the victim. You lose bigtime today.

The victim is quietly waiting for trial to tell the story. Fact is: This case is going to trial and nothing can STOP it.

Anonymous said...

justice58~do you have even the tiniest bit of real evidence that any of these indicted men committed this crime. Everyone else has figured out that this is a Nifong hoax, that he is pandering to the black vote in Durham, and has taken this alleged victim along for the ride. I feel sorry for her only because she had no idea of where this would go, and she is going to be in serious trouble when it's over. Her children have a mother who clearly is disturbed, possibly drug-addicted, and based on her behavior as attested to by one of her drivers, not terribly attentive to them.

If the people of Durham elect Nifong, you will get what you deserve. If you think he will be able to help the black people in Durham, you are wrong. This case is setting back the judicial process, help for real rape victims and race relations in Durham by about 50-100 years. You will have given him carte-blanche to do this to anyone who is arrested in Durham, regardless of race. Everyone should be interested in due process and the civil rights of all accused, not those you select by race or economic status.

Your tone is incredibly nasty--you are not interested in justice, just some retribution, and I feel sorry for you.

justice58 said...


quote:"Your tone is incredibly nasty--you are not interested in justice, just some retribution, and I feel sorry for you"


Anonymous said...

We don't need to ask you, I think most can figure out that you don't.

Anonymous said...

justice 58-don't care, can't reason. perfect Nifong voter

Anonymous said...

At least Justice 58 admits to being a supporter of a DA who has lied, conducted an illegal ID process (ask Prof. James Coleman at Duke), and committed other crimes. What Justice 58 is saying is this: Don't confuse me with facts. I have my mind made up, and no matter how many times the set of events the DA claimed to be true are shown to be false, I will believe them anyway because of the race of the defendants.

This is what one once called Jim Crow justice. I see that Jim Crow justice in reverse is being practiced in Durham, and I thank Justice 58 for being honest about his dishonesty.

William L. Anderson

Pootoo said...

Justice 58 left some juicy pieces on Assata's site a while ago. Really deep critical thinking on his/her part. Among the gems were claims that Professor Coleman, who criticized Mike Nifong's procedural irregularities, was an Uncle Tom. Note that he didn't criticize the accuser, just the DA's legal methods, a subject he is more than qualified to comment on seeing as he is an expert on that. Then he/she goes on a tirade about how his/her grandmother was mistreated. Terrible, very terrible, but it doesn't really have anything to do with what did or did not happen at 610 Buchanan on March 13/14. Interesting fodder for English professors, but nothing that impacts this case or, you know, the real world. You're entitled to your opinion, but I am entitled to saying that your opinion has no basis in rationality, logic, or fact. I only wish their was some kind of IQ test for voting in this country.

No one with an ounce of common sense could possibly vote for Nifong at this point. If you do and he is re-elected, I only hope that he doesn't come after you or your loved ones when the next election season rolls around.

Anonymous said...

Justice 58 sounds nutty enough to actually be Nifong.

There is scarcely a lawyer in the country that thinks this case is anything but a legal atrocity. The NC Bar may regret not acting sooner. They have to know what is happening is wrong, but they are letting it drift until Nifong becomes THE face of the North Carolina legal system. Does the North Carolina bar even have a disciplinary division, or must the legislature step in and create a real one independently of the North Carolina Nifong Bar?

These kids can never be convicted in this case in an honest court. If Nifong gets a black jury willing to ignore its oath and convict despite the evidence, the case will be thrown out on appeal. I have never before seen a criminal case proceed without a scintilla of evidence supporting the state's case, but it seems to be possible in a city as corrupt as Durham. If the judge acts like a judge, the case will be dismissed when Nifong rests for failure to make a prima facie case. I have seen prosecutors with much more evidence than Nifong has lose on a defense motion to dismiss. It should happen here...if it can even get that far.

Anonymous said...

She is angry at Kim too...LOL. I wonder why justice 58 isn't concerned with accuser's changing story. If being inconsistent makes Kim a bad witness, what does it make the accuser? I guess Kim didn't say what justice 58 wanted to hear, so now Kim is up to no good.
I guess that justicefortwosisters website will have to be changed into justiceforonesister.

justice58 said...

anonymous 4:50pm

Your insults and attacks on my character doesn't bother me at all.

The fact is: You're scared stiff for the duke 3. They should have kept their nose clean. Now...Deal With It.

You want the NC Bar to intervene because it's rich white duke students v a poor black woman. Too freaking bad! They did the crime and must now pay for it. Why should these criminals walk?? No way, I say. They must "Pay The Piper" like any other common criminal. End of story.

Anonymous said...

They didn't do any crime.
Give it a rest.

Anonymous said...

Part of the problem in this case is the "intelligence gap." Justice simply is unable to comprehend the extent of exculpatory evidence. Most Nifong supporters can only emote. If you gave them IQ tests they would be on the lower end.

Justice has nothing but 5 versions of a intoxicated sex worker's story; all the other evidence supports the defense. But I really feel he also does not have the intellectual capacity to understand what he reads.If he reads. Most of his ilk just believe whatever is fed them. It's sad. Justice cannot offer anything to the discussion but feelings. There is no cognitive reason. Simply incapable.

James said...

Justice58, I'm scared for justice and the legal system at this point. If the lax players were guilty, I would put them behind bars myself. And I'd do it with a smile. I'd like to see the NC Bar intervene because of Nifong's behavior, not the economic or racial makeup of the accused or the accuser. From what we can tell, they are guilty of underage drinking and having some bonehead teammates that yelled nasty things (after insults were slung at them, mind you). But I guess that doesn't matter to you. All white people must be guilty to you. You are the worst kind of racist.

Further attacking these guys because of their race is in fact racism. They can't change their skin color anymore than you or I can. Nor can they help how much money is in their parents' bank accounts. So in your logic it's okay to attack these guys for things completely beyond their control, but talking about the accuser's financial motives (today's statement by Kim sound suspiciously like a setup to me) or sexual background, in short things she CAN control, are out of bounds? Right. That makes sense.

And learn from damn grammar. Or maybe you lost that when your sanity went out the window.

Anonymous said...

Wow. This claim by Kim has really set some people off. I have to wonder why.

Anonymous said...

Justice 58 - The assualt case against two DPD police officers was dismissed today because the DA's office never established juridiction. Remember the DPD officers assualted a Black man in Raleigh and left him after hitting, kicking, and insulting his race. The Durham police offiers when out and hired good lawyers who knew that the DA's office was really screwing up. This is very basic law. I think this is just a hint of what Durham has to look forward to if Nifong is elected. Now do you care? I do. This is absolutely wrong for a DA's staff to be so incompetent. It is very scary to have racists on a police force. It is unthinkable that they would assualt someone. Are you going to hold the DA's office accountable for this? Or is this OK?

Anonymous said...

If any of you are wondering how white juries could have wrongfully convicted black men in the Jim Crow era when faced with mountains of exculpatory evidence, all you have to do is read Justice 58's posts. He is no better than the racists of Jim Crow.

No, these young men did not "do the crime." There needs to be something called evidence, which is missing.

All I can say is that one day I hope you (J58) are in the dock and a jury and prosecutor are willing to railroad you unjustly as you are wanting to see happen now. Or maybe one of your family or friends will be in the dock. Whatever the case, people like you are the primary reason for wrongful convictions in this country. They just do not care, and if they feel strongly about something, it only is feeling strongly to do evil.

William L. Anderson

joan foster said...

Beautifully said, always.

How sad when people like Justice become the very thing they despise.

TombZ said...

It appears Justice58 doesn't want to see the end of racism.

As a Rodney King from a parallel universe might have said, "Why can't we all just fight to the death?"

After all, why try to end racism when there's vengeance to be taken, power to be gained and money to be made, right Justice58?

Anonymous said...

Justice 58

Since you have so much to say, give us FACTS as to why the Duke Three are guilty. Or are they guilty because they are white?

Facts only. Example: DNA results, digital coding, etc.

Go ahead Perry Mason- try your case!

Anonymous said...

I don't see the NC bar doing anything here since the president of the Durham County bar is Finesse Couch. For those that don't know, that is the mother of the MILF Man himself, Destine Couch. Destine is a ADA in Durham and went to high school with the False Accuser.

Anonymous said...

Justice 58

State your case- FACTS ONLY!

Anonymous said...

How amusing all this outrage, all these attempts to refute the illogical. The only thing that can be said to or about J58 is "Thank you."

Thank you for proving my point. You have so nicely proven this case is and always will be the reverse racists' dream come true. Nifong wanted to win the election and it all got way out of hand. Black leaders and the black community took hold of it and now he can't back out.

As I've said, the Duke three will NEVER be declared innocent, even if the Accuser admits she is a liar. It will always be the fault of white people for making her lie. Every liberal talking point that rests on this case is a fraud since there was no crime committed that night and thus no injustice to anyone, either, even the racial slurs (first started against the whites).

But, it is now the cause celebre for the liberal propagandists at Duke who purport to "educate" our children, for the haters of wealth regardless of the fact that their jobs are a product of wealth creation for all (but we'd all much rather be equally miserable in poverty than unequally paid in some form of prosperity, right?).

So, thank you J58 for giving people the opportunity to finally speak out about what this case has been about from the moment Nifong sacrificed justice for politics. You are the model of sheephood, a follower of racists dedicated to promoting your superiority over white people. I hope all read your words very carefully, and once beyond their disbelief will suddenly understand where we, as a nation, are headed.

And, as far as Precious's words about "marks," I'm not so sure that they can be interpreted as meaning she had already planned the rape lie. She could have been threatening Kim for pushing and prodding her. She could have been expressing her own sense of self-hatred as she has clearly demonstrated in her past delusions and fantasies of gang rape and attempted murder. I suspect that Precious has some serious mental issues that are solely the result of many years of drug and alcohol addictions that began when she was only an adolescent, and which are often manifested in what is called bi-polar disorder. I do not see a clear case of Precious planning the rape cry at this point.

The key to this view is Kim's automatic reaction to the news that Precious had cried rape. "That's a crock" was a reflexive response that indicated Kim had no idea that Precious would say that. Add to that the "chilled to the bone" response Kim now says she experienced at the "marks" comment, and it doesn't follow. She may indeed have been chilled to the bone, but likely more from the sadist tone and context of the remark, or the implied threat of legal action against herself by Precious than any idea of what Precious ultimately did. I seriously cannot accept that Precious is intelligent enough in her addicted mentality to have thought of this until she was in an environment where she was encouraged to create an excuse for her behavior, something she had experience in doing previously.

That does not take anything away from Kim's words or the truthfulness of them. The interviewer should have done some serious questioning on what Kim took those words to mean instead of only her "feelings" about and actions in response to them.

Doesn't anyone wonder why major media didn't probe that more? We are, as usual, left with only speculation since the picture is still quite murky, and that is probably exactly what was intended.


Anonymous said...

The poor grammar and use of the word b**ch by Justice 58 put me in mind of one of the professors in the Group of 88. How about it 'Justice,' are you number 58 in that clique?

Anonymous said...

Justice 58 where are you?
Searching for facts?
Or do you just hate the Duke Three for what they represent and what you wish you were?
I honestly can say I was not a racist before March 13th. But , boy am I one now!
Justice- I hope it is your kid rotting in jail. You know Nifong will walk the otherway once the election/ this case is over!

Still waiting for your FACTS!!!!
(you are so slow to respond!)

Anonymous said...

Question for Nifong

Would you prosecute the same way if this were your son?

Your son sure has a burden to carry throughout his youth and adult life!!!

justice58 said...



My kid is not rotting in jail and you were already a racist and this case fueled it even more.

Keep waiting until h*ll freezes over. You don't really want to hear what I have to say anyway. In your mind the dukies are innocent and the h*ll with the victim and what she has to say.

Remember you became a racist after March 14th. Why would racist people want to hear a black person's facts of the case? Are you that stupid too??

Nice f'ing try though, flake.... you lose...again!

Anonymous said...

justice is right. no one is believing that lying b---- kim. the stripper told different stories because she was intoxicated and there may be something wrong with her mentally. what is kim's excuse? she is just changing her story because the 60 minutes story did not work with the voters. this is in response to the poll that shows nifong may be ahead in the polls. they want this case to go away so bad they paid this b--- some more money to tell a different lie. why didn't she tell ed bradley this same story? and the fake crying ? please. no one is falling for that. check out the court tv poll, the thirteenth jury. 92% of people on that poll do not beleive what kim said on tv today. people i know were even laughing about her today and laughing at the defense too. they said: man, they must be scared s---less of that nifong winning the election and not dropping that case! you all will see on election day that not many people bought kim's brand of b---s---.

Anonymous said...

Looks like justice58 doesn't have a need for manners or facts.

Anonymous said...

Precious telling Kim "mark me" most likely does not indicate Precious already formed a plan to accuse the players of rape. "Mark me" most likely means-if you do something to me I will get you in trouble (sue you, report you to the police). I don't care what 92 % of people on some message board think. I believe Precious told this to Kim.

Anonymous said...

92% of the posters at ctv are retarded

Anonymous said...

92% of posters on CTV are retarded? After CW drove most of the reasonable people from that board, I would say it sounds about right.

Anonymous said...

Hey justice, it's your old pal LEC from the Wash Post Cohen forum.

You seem to have sunk even deeper into your hate. Do you realize what your attitude and those like you are doing? It has made many white people see in a real way the hate in at least some of the black community. It does nothing to foster better relations between races. It makes them see the buttons that people are pushing when they try to make things a race issue when they are not. Most white people would sit back during these episodes and be quite because it was the PC thing to do. I don't see them standing by and letting this ride.

The problem is that after Kim's initial statement to police they did not re-interview her to clarify the descrepancies between her account and the accusers account of the evening. The authorities have not even talked to 2 of the accused. Can't you at least acknowledge the fact that the DA do not do a complete invsestigation in light of: not following up with more interviews, not examinimg Reades alibi evidence, finding no DNA, and conducting a flawed ID. The prosecution is there to find the truth and not just to convict. When the credibility of the accuser is key and her story is inconsistent they need to get more facts. It looks like they just stopped investingating in order to hand down a quick indictment before the primaries. Is this really a good thing? Do you want anyone of your friends or family indicted under similar circumstances? I know you don't want to believe that the accuser lied but can you at least admit it could happen? Can you be open to the fact that not every black woman tells the truth?

Tortmaster on TalkLeft documented some of the inconsistencies in the accusers statements for Cash today(,512.285.html):

You claim that you cannot locate Precious to interview her? We know where she is: All you need to do is drive over to the Platinum Club and pay the cover charge. I bet you can deduct it as a business expense. But, you do not need to interview Precious, Cash, you can just go by her statements:

A. HIMAN STATEMENT. On or about March 21, 2006, Investigator Benjamin Himan prepared a statement for Precious. In that statement, the false accuser admits the following:

1. “She was unable to remember anything further about the suspects.”

2. “She did have some beer before she came about a 24oz bottle of beer.”

3. “She stated that she had not had sex a week prior to the incident.”

B. SAMIHA’S N&O ARTICLE. Only one reporter has interviewed the false accuser. That would be Samiha Khanna of the News&Observer, and that article was published on March 25, 2006. In it the web of “Fantastic Lies” continued:

1. “Just moments after she and another exotic dancer started to perform, she said, men in the house started barking racial slurs.”

2. "We started to cry," she said. "We were so scared."

3. “The accuser spoke Friday, struggling not to cry as she recounted the events of the early hours of March 14.…”

4. “The accuser had worked for an escort company for two months, doing one-on-one dates about three times a week.”

5. “This was the first time she had been hired to dance provocatively for a group, she said.”

6. “She hesitated to tell police what happened, she said Friday. She realized she had to, for her young daughter and her father.”

7. "‘My father came to see me in the hospital,’ she said. ‘I knew if I didn't report it that he would have that hurt forever, knowing that someone hurt his baby and got away with it.’"

C. G.D. SUTTON’S REPORT. Durham Police Officer G.D. Sutton prepared a report which bears a date of March 14, 2006. In the report, the accuser made some simply extraordinary statements:

1. “She and three girls, Nikki, Angel and Tammy had performed at a bachelor’s party….”

2. “While I talked with [Precious] she was crying and seemed very nervous, she said her vagina was sore and she was bleeding.”

3. “Nikki wanted to have sex with one of the guys and tried to talk her into it.”

4. “She [Precious] did not want to.”

5. “Nikki wanted her to come into the bathroom with her and the guys.”

6. “She ended up in the bathroom with 5 guys who forced her to have intercourse and perform sexual acts.”

7. “She later stated that she was penetrated by all 5 of the guys.”

8. “While being interviewed at Duke [Hospital], her story changed several times.”

9. “At one point, she said that she had not been raped.”

10. “She also said that Nikki had stolen her money and cellphone.”;s=3;w=800

D. SHELTON’S REPORT. Sergeant J.C. Shelton of the Durham Police Department prepared a report on or about April 9, 2006, which contained an account of how he came upon the false accuser in the Kroger parking lot. Precious came up with additional “Fantastic Lies” at this time:

1. “I [Sgt. Shelton] got an ammonia capsule from my patrol car. When I used it, the female began mouth-breathing which is a sign that she was not really unconscious.”

2. “Some of the guys from the party pulled her from the vehicle and groped her.”

3. “She told me that no one forced her to have sex.”

4. Sgt. Shelton let his Watch Commander know that Precious “had recanted her rape allegation.”

5. “Within a few minutes, I was told that she told the SANE doctor that she had been raped.”

6. Sgt. Shelton returned to ask Precious “if she had or had not been raped….She did not want to talk to me anymore….”

Anonymous said...

Justice58 gets around. He's affectionately known as Poetic__Justice on the WTVD boards.
He gets banned and moves on to other blogs. Google his nic

Anonymous said...

you all should know that most of the black people in durham do not beleive kim. they know a liar when they see one and the rumor is out that the duke family that is down here all the time, the finertys, are the ones that slipped her some money to come up with some more lies to help defeat nifong. justice will tell you the same thing as it is all over black durham just like it was when the cabbie was paid off. the cabbie got a new car and everything right after it happened that he "suddenly" remembered picking up reade after papa reade came down here and paid him off. yeah right, that is why he said the car the women was in was white when it was black on the photos. he was a paid off liar just like kim. noone down here believes the tow paid off liars even if they are black. they believe nifong has a case and the defense is afraid of what he has.

Anonymous said...

Yeah the Duke 3 got to the cabbie and the people who run that ATM machine that took the picture of Reid and Elmo's car. It's all grand conspiracy.

Anonymous said...

they got to the cabbie about his testimony not the atm photos, dummy. reade was building an alibi all along which is why all of those calls are so short and why he left suddenly. he was not interested in talking to his girlfriend, only with trying to create an electronic trail. he suceeded up to a point as one of the times he is supposedly on the phone he is pictured at the atm not holding the phone so ? did he make all the calls.

Anonymous said...

I guess they slipped money to the DNA lab too.

Anonymous said...

I don't think I ever read such lunacy.
How did Reade get to the ATM without the cabbie? The cab is in the photo.

Anonymous said...

There are far too many intelligent people posting on this site to allow a bottom feeder like Justice58 spew his/her/it's venom. He makes a strong case for IQ testing to obtain voting privileges or sit on a jury.

Anonymous said...

WOW...Thanks to all those with this new, factual information here...What I've learned:

Nifong is a real hero..

Justice58 is related to Nifong..

The DNA samples were tampered with--both times...

The ATM pictures were 'revised' to show a cab in the background...

The ATM time stamps were adjusted by the bank president who must be related to Seligmann...

The cellphone records were tampered with to show the calls at that time...

Elmo must be related to Seligmann...

All those legal analysts and former prosecutors questioning Nifong's conduct just aren't as good an attorney as he is....

All those police investigators got the stories mixed up--not the accuser...

Fortunately the accuser was able to pole-dance away her immense pain and anguish literally days after this horrible incident. Her daddy must be so proud...

YIKES! I almost got suckered by the so-called exculpatory evidence from the defense but thanks to some of the bloggers here (esp J58) and claims by Victoria Peterson, I'm sure these boys are guilty...
I mean really...if they were innocent don't you think Dick Brodhead would be out there bravely leading the call for the dismissal of charges?

justice58 said...


Good to hear from you. I kind of missed our discussions over at Wash Post Cohen forum. It all stopped after that ***** Stef showed up.

Now to the suject:

LEC.. I've never said "black women don't lie". It's just in this case, she is NOT lying. Don't blame the division between black/white on Mike Nifong. The dukies drew a fight when they yelled racial slurs and made the comment "thank your Grandpa for my cotton shirt". That kind of comment didn't just fall off the lips by accident, that kind of hateful insulting racist remarks had taken root already and was buried in the heart. Comments like that is despicable and disgusting and it kills any trust that you've ever had with that person. That kind of racism was the way of life in the Old South. Even the lone black lacrosse player admitted on GMA that he can forgive the players for saying it, but he can't forget. Do you understand where he's coming from LEC? I certainly do. This case didn't stir up race relations. It was already there. period.

One thing that I liked about our conversations is that you never personally attacked me.... yet. We can agree to disagree without attacking each other. On the other hand.... justice will attack back. Plain and Simple.

Given the character of Kim, I don't doubt that she stole some of the victim's money. She is money hungry. I am furious with her, after 7 months she decides to tell this version of the story. What happen to the story when she was on the 60 lie. What??

And for all to know: I am not Poetic Justice. I didn't start Justice 4 TWO Sisters. I am a woman that slaps down injustice wherever I see it. HOLLAR!

Anonymous said...


The first definition of justice given by Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
"1 a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments b : JUDGE c : the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity"

This definition talks about the adjustment of conflicting claims. In this case we have conflicting claims. The DA has not even taken statements from 2 of the accused. The DA has not dealt with the conflicts in the physical evidence and the accusers story. There are conflicts between Kim's story and the accuser’s story. Additional facts are needed to resolve or understand better who really is telling the truth and who is lying. Why did the DA and police stop getting additional information? Were they afraid that it would impeach the accuser and put holes in their case? Can't you admit that the things in the accusers past make here credibility key to the case? There are so many things in her past that can be used to impeach her credibility. How can you find her credible in light of all the evidence that is available?

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary second definition for justice:
"2 a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair b (1) : the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2) : conformity to this principle or ideal : RIGHTEOUSNESS c : the quality of conforming to law"

In this definition the idea of fairness or impartiality comes into play. Was the lineup fair and impartial? The reality is that as people we are highly unreliable in eyewitness identifications. A lot of research has gone into the recommended procedures so that eyewitness identifications do not lead to false id's and people can still identify those that commit crimes against them. The accuser consistently mis-identified a number of people throughout the first 2 id sessions. These were at least following some semblance of the rules. The last id session was highly suggestive and did not follow the rules. THe accuser said that there was only a 70% chance that Reade was at the party in the first lineup. How, did she become 100% sure that he was a rapist weeks later?

And Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary ends with the following definition for Justice:
"3 : conformity to truth, fact, or reason : CORRECTNESS""

This definition is asking us to look fact, reason, truth and not just our emotions. Inside our brain is an area called the amygdala. It is where our emotions are processed. What we see and hear is filtered by those emotions. We often do not realize how much of what we "know" is based on those emotions and not what we are really seeing or hearing or touching or smelling. As an illustration, I saw a program on PBS where a young man had a brain injury where the connection between vision and the amygdala was damaged. When he saw his mother he no longer recognized her. When he talked on the phone he recognized her. This shows how much of how he knew his mother was wrapped up in his emotions. I understand that the facts of this case are going to be filtered by the emotions sparked by the racial remarks. But, these 3 students were not arrested for making racial slurs. They weren't even the ones that made those remarks. Deven Sherwood the only African American on the team said that he never had heard any racial remarks or jokes from any of the LAX players. Do you think that the norm for all of the LAX players? Do you think the dancers could have instigated some of the anger and resulting reamrks. The LAX players were drunk and feeling ripped off for <5 minutes worth of dancing for $800. Kim called them limp d... white boys. That doesn't really justify the remarks they made. But, it does put them in context.

The lacrosse team is made of individauls. It seems to me that you have lumped together the individual actions of specific people and ascribed all of those to the idicted LAX players. How can you call that justice?


Blue Devil Knight said...

Incidentally, the news organizations have all sorts of dirt on the accuser, dirt they can't reveal because it will reveal her identity.

If this goes to trial, it will all come out, and nobody will be convicted of rape. Because it didn't happen.

Unfortunately, Nifong will win because Cheek and Monk are going to split the anti-Nifong vote.

If Nifong gets less than 50% of the vote, will there have to be a runoff election?

Anonymous said...

of course the cab was not added to the atm photo but most of the cabbie's testimony(that reade and the crew he was with did not say the "just a stripper comment",that they were happpy and not rushed, etc, that there was a large group of men at the house when duke police and durham pd said they were at the house at the exact same time and it was deserted, the white car,etc) is highly suspect and that is because it was bought and paid for by papa seligman.

and also no one has ever said that the victim is not a ho of the first magnitude but even ho's have to give permission to be fondled/have sex with/roughed up,etc. being a ho does not mean that the young men can do whatever they want to with her without legal recourse. all of the evidence has not been seen, only what the defense wanted you to see so far and the defense is determined not to try this case, they want it dismissed. ask yourself why. it is not about money, these people have plenty. they have power, too but nifong has not caved in to that power. why don't they want to go to court and win there? why dismiss? i will tell you why. the dukies want to avoid a discussion of what really went on that night. there is photo and video and email evidence of what went on, most of it in the discovery that was presented after the gag order. notice how the leaks from the defense seemed to dry up after the gag order and the pr effort to smear the victim(60 minutes, etc) geared up instead. that is because there are some things in discovery, the dukies do not want to face:

racist emails
emails discussing the actual crime
photos and video of the crime

and last but not least, there is a rumor of testimony from an eyewitness that was at the party who turned state's evidence who will say he saw the assault and who left trace evidence at the scene as he was not involved in the assault but was a voyeur to the action. this person will also testify to the fact that condoms were used and that is why the team was so certain that there would be no dna as they thought they would not be caught. this person's lawyer has already been helping nifong, remember that one of nifong's motions mentioned being told by a unindicted player's lawyer that the av was on/given ecstacy. ask yourself why an unindicted players lawyer would be anywhere near nifong and discussing drugs, etc. remember, according to the defense, nifong never met with any of them. as i said that is a rumor but it is a strong rumor all over durham and was started at the court house. please note, i also wrote on these blogs that there was a rumor of computer evidence and lo and behold, nifong turned over 3 dvds full at the last hearing. i know my source was correct on that info and i think they are right about the above rumor as well. you will see that play out at trial if this gets to a trial.

Anonymous said...

to the 4:40 poster:

It has been common knowledge since the very beginning of the case, that the players turned over their computers. It was well known that DVDs would be handed over. Frankly, whether there are racist remarks or not, certainly thatdoesn't prove a rape. Next, there aren't discussions, video, or photos of the assault, since there was no assault. You honestly believe that everyone who has seen the discovery would lie for these young men. By the way, the comment about Reade's dad and the white car- what on earth are you talking about? You throw out wild accusations without any evidence to support it. Simply shameful.
The reason that the defense attorneys don't want this to go to trial is to spare the young men the emotional and financial drain of a trial over a false accusation that is robbing them of their ability to carry on with their lives. I am sure they also fear facing a Durham jury where it is obvious there is a segment of the population that doesn't care they are innocent, but want them in jail anyway. I don't think this farce could end in a conviction, there would surely be at least one sane juror, but probably would end in a hung jury, simply out of spite. The only way I see a conviction is if jurors are intimidated by their fellow jurors and cave to that pressure. This non-case is having a severe impact on these families and despite what you suggest, a huge financial drain. Why should there be a trial when there is simply no evidence?
By the way, hate to tell you this, but you are truly living in a Durham wonderland if you think a player has "turned". They have all signed statements saying there was no assault. The AV supporters repeatedly live in a world where they have to make up information that "maybe", "possibly",etc. happened rather than examining the facts of the case. It will be interesting if this goes to trial, to see how Nifong handles being proven to be an incompetent liar day after day by the defense team. I think his temper and ego will get the best of him and he will explode. Of course, it will be interesting to hear the AV's testimony as well, since even the DA doesn't seem to have a clue what she will say.

Anonymous said...

beleive what you want to. we will all see if nifong wins the election and this goes to trial. that is what the defense is afraid of. nifong isn't.