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26 comments:
Oh, this is great. Seriously, I love it.
Make sure you have the proper permits. Don't give them any chance to shut you down.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
I love it!. Go Duke Moms!
Absolutely fantastic!!!!! Hope the turnout is great but even if it isn't, a point will be made. If I were not a male and older than dirt, I would fly up from N.O. and join you.
Trinity60
How about inviting Brodhead to attend the March?
That might give him a chance to do the right thing... for a change.
I wonder if it will get good television coverage?
Alev said:
I'm local. Though I can see some positive reasons supporters might want to do this, I see more downsides than positives:
Scheduling it during church hours will be read by some as reinforcing the notion that this is about "out of town Yankees," since the church-going habit is stronger in the south. Sunday afternoon would be more in keeping with southern culture. There is no point in provoking additional issues, or reinforcing the "outsiders" impression.
Additionally, choosing church time may actually call out the particular church that originally protested against the lax players in counter-protest.
No matter when the march is held, if there is tension, (ie interchanges back and forth) , and I would be suprised if there wasn't, I think it will strengthen anti-lacrosse sentiment among people who currently have ambivalent feelings--whether they have been somewhat inclined to support the alleged victim but recognise the issues created with her multiple accounts, or whether they have been moderately inclined to support the players. Any tension downtown is likely to swing those folks into a more negative position, not more positive.
If there is tension, you can also guarantee that the news coverage will be different than your recollection of the event. All it takes is one snide remark from the supporters (And are you sure that you can control everyone, no matter what is said to provoke?) and you can be sure THAT exchange will be the one that is on TV-- just like the news has largely neglected to cover the "limp----white boys comment" but has covered the retort. It doesn't matter if 149 marchers were totally dignified while abuse was hurled constantly and one marcher finally retorted. "Balanced" coverage will show one take from each side--if you are lucky. I've been to protests and marches and this has *always* happened. So far, there has been little for people to be critical of in the conduct of supporters of the lax players, with the exception of some racist remarks on some blogs. So far, though the main players: the lax players, their defense teams, and the families have been able to keep totally to the high road. There has not been a misstep.That has been part of what is driving the support. For that perception to change (and all it takes is one blot) would be tragic. My experience would be that if that kind of change happened, it wouldn't be taken in proportion to wrongs done, and it wouldn't blow over; rather, it would "even things up" in many people's minds. The supporters of the players have got to keep their noses totally clean. It may not be fair, but it's reality.
Honestly, I think taking this issue to the streets, even with peaceful intent, is likely to have more negative fallout than positive. I really think it's best to continue speaking & writing, and waiting to see what happens in court the next day. While you may wish that more local people were speaking up, you may not be aware of how much is going on behind the scenes. Any tension created will jeopardize this. If lax supporters come to be seen as instigators of tension, some of the behind-the-scenes support, in both the white and Black communities, may melt away.
I realize that this opinion will likely be flamed, but it is offered helpfully. People will surely point out the potbangers protests, etc. "They did it; why don't we have the right to do it?" I'd say, "Sure you have the right, but look at the results of the protests; have you seen any positive results from them? The "castrate" sign, for instance, came back later to bite them, as it should have. A march would be a really bad move politically, IMO.
I may be wrong, but I have lived here for decades and know people well of various etnicities ranging from very wealthy and influential to poor. I really think that while it may provide a way for the marchers feel better for the moment, this has a very high risk of making things worse, and very little chance of making things better for the players.
I seriously hope someone will reconsider.
If supporters wanted to create a powerful public event, get together people of various races who have been wrongfully convicted in North Carolina, or elsewhere in the US. Get Elmostofa and his attorney involved, for instance, as a casualty of this case. Make it a rally about justice in general. The defense attorneys should have many connections from their pro bono work. (Don't know whether they would be ethically allowed to give them.) But that's the kind of thing I think would be both powerful and positive. Bring people of color from out of state if need be. SHOW that this is about more than these three guys; SHOW that if these types of abuse are given a pass here, who it will be most likely to effect.
My opinion.
From another local, I agree with everything the 12:04 has written and he/she couldn't be more right regarding holding something at church time.
Just my opinion as well.
I've never been a big "march" fan simply because white, male, Christian conservatives like me are always the foil...the ones that are marched against. I agree that the event should have been scheduled for Saturday. Nobody marches on Super Bowl Sunday at 11:00 in the morning! Alas, we are march novices. Also agree with other posters that this event can lead to nothing positive. The media can spin anything to portray what they want to portray. In this case it will probably be something to the effect of "the angry (white) face of the alleged rapists' supporters". And please Dear God don't let any kook KKK or Aryan Brotherhood types show up! The Duke Moms should reconsider.
Alev said:
Ok, I've slept on it and am more concerned than ever.
This event has the potential to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
While what happens in the courts is supposed to be divorced from public opinion, what happens in the court does not happen in a vacuum. The potential for this to swing opinion the other way is signficant. Right now, public opinion strongly favors justice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't make it harder for people to do the right thing.
WHile I think the timing could have been planned a little better (Saturday, maybe, as was mentioned), I don't think fear of being those who stand up for "elite, male, white rapists" should stop these women, or anyone, for standing up for their sons, especially when it is so obvious they have done nothing wrong. The Black Panthers, the NAACP, and the potbangers all held their heads high when they convicted these boys months ago without one iota of evidence. They held their bias and racism up to the world without considering how the families of those accused (and not accused) might feel. They weren't even supporting the "victim" at times, they were simply condeming the laxers.
These mothers want to support their sons and show that they will not be man handled by bias and racism, or articles like "we're watching, Mr. Cooper" where the AA community suggests they hold the keys and control this thing and goes as far as threatens the AG if things aren't done in their favor. No, I think these women (and men, uncles, friends, brothers, etc) have every right to stand up for themselves for once and not be ashamed that they are white, that they ever played lacrosse or made something of themselves in lives. Be proud of who you are. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks?
Victoria Peterson, and whatever antics she uses to disrupt this event, will be the news-worthy (and thus widely reported)consequence of the march.
I sorry, but some are concerned about church going citizens. That is the height of hypocrisy. Most of those church going citizens are racists. They slandered these moms sons, they threatened them. Because you go to church doesn't clear you of your crimes on humanity. I say March on and let Durham know, "No one messes with my son", "I am an American, I pay taxes and I want my Constitution upheld."
Go under the Duke Hoax; in Liestoppers. The email send to a blogger from Wendy Murphy. Unbelievable. She wants this gravy train to continue so she can make money off of it. I hope the defense is printing this out and will use it in the civil suit against her, for slandering and pandering. What a monster this women is.
The march should go on. Whether at 11 am or 1 pm, it is a statement of support for the kids and their families. My wife and I had a male athlete at Duke the last 4 years, and my wife said definitely she would be there. If Durham is going to come out and “disrespect” (that’s Durham slang for criticize) these mothers, then let’s get it on tape and show Durham for what it REALLY IS. The corrupt backwater community it appears to be.
If African-American mothers and Durham Churches would care to join with us then I will change my opinion of Durham.
Will Cy Nifong be invited? She has a teenage son. Fasely being accused or rape could easily happen to him also. She should show extreme interest in this cause.
Since it is so easy to fasely accuse a man of rape in Durham, perhaps another pyschpath like Crystal should do the same to Nifong Jr. I wonder if the Nifong's would like that taste of that medicine!
No women of color will be out in support of these miscreants who are accused of abusing a girl who looks like their daughters and granddaughters. They will be in church at 11:oo which is where most of Durham will be. Only the truly ungodly would plan a protest for that time of day here but that is at least consistent; if you support those who do evil, you do not honor the Lord so of course you are not concerned with dhurch. Maybe if these men had gone to church more in their formative years, they would not be charged with the crimes they are charged with now.
In a way this is a good time as it will lessen the chance any counter protestors show up as most locals go to church. The only possible exception are the college kids(ie, NCCU) as they often go to an earlier service and some of them may show up but I doubt it. To me this is a win-win situation as it gets their message across without a real chance of confrontation. The mothers of the players should be there front and center for maximum publicity and the media should get some press releases. Of course, the Naccp is having a march on feb 10 but Duke lacrosse is not the main topic of that march.
"No woman of colour will be out to support these miscreants..."
1. Even after all that's now come out? Is the latter all wrong _because_ the accuser is of colour while the accused are rich white males? What if the colours were reversed?
2. 'Innocent till proven guilty' apples only to people of colour? All whites are guilty _because_ they are white?
Alev said:
5:42 a.m.
Ah, I see. You're qualified to cast stones.
what has come out except that the defense has tried to destroy both the accuser and Nifong? There are 1000 pages of case evidence the defense has not let the public see and they have everyone running around saying there is no evidence whatsoever. I guarantee you that no women of color will be there and if there are any, you can count them on one hand and they will have ties to Duke. The rest of the black mothers will be in church at 11 am where their pastors will be asking them to pray for the Nifong, Precious and the special prosecutors in their time of trouble and harrassment by the powers of darkness.
what has come out except that the defense has tried to destroy both the accuser and Nifong? There are 1000 pages of case evidence the defense has not let the public see and they have everyone running around saying there is no evidence whatsoever. I guarantee you that no women of color will be there and if there are any, you can count them on one hand and they will have ties to Duke. The rest of the black mothers will be in church at 11 am where their pastors will be asking them to pray for the Nifong, Precious and the special prosecutors in their time of trouble and harrassment by the powers of darkness.
I think they should march in front of the houses of every individual who attempted to railroad the players. Bring the pots and pans, and maybe a sign reading .. "it's Sunday morning, time to confess."
Maybe then women of color, whatever the hell that means, can hear the protests of mothers, regardless of color, who are watching as their sons are persecuted by the defenders of abject racism, sexism and elitism.
I'd love to see soon-to-be-disbarred DA Nifong have to answer to an angry mob crowding the sidewalk outside his home.
Maybe the fraud that is professor Holloway would have something interesting to say after she is called out for blatant racism, along with Wahneema (did someone make that name up, because Hollywood couldn't have done better) and the others enablers of the hoax as angry mothers and supporters of innocent men demand they explain their actions.
Maybe the mothers could get the good sisters of the "ism" departments, you know, racism, sexism and paternalism, to join them in calling for Nifong's castration.
Maybe the good women of color who will all be in church on Sunday, could hold a pancake breakfast at the "man of color" owned strip joint where Crystal Mangum worked. Maybe they could all bang pots together as black pimps sell black women to white men for sexual tittilation.
Then again, it's Durham in Wonderland, and we know that however you color it, this won't happen
"church time" ??? who cares.
The person above who wrote "who cares" about church time is a good example of the likes of people who support the Duke 3. They support the doers of evil and they do not care about church and God. Unfortunately for them, the people in Durham do believe in God and go to church and they recognise evil when they see it. Porn, drunkeness, perversion, stripping and sexual shows(the strippers are not exempt from condemnation) are examples of moral depravity and if this case ever got before a jury, the Duke 3 would be in trouble and the defense knows that which is why they are afraid to go to court here in Durham.
People go to church in Durham, and they believe in god?
Wow, you should write a news story about this amazing development.
Who knew people in Durham went to church on Sunday?
Let's hope the march on Feb. 4th goes right past every goddamned church in town with pots a'bangin' and banners flying.
Let's hope the good church goers of Durham find some semblance of wisdom from mindlessly repeating the same drivel every week, and turn their eyes from the pages of whatever version of the bible, or koran, or torah they are reading to notice the hate, the racism and the abject ignorance of those who would convict men of a crime that doesn't exist. Unless porn, strippers and beer are now illegal in the madhouse that is church-going Durham.
Maybe we should just hope that god, or baby muhammad, or samson, or an itinerant jewish carpenter or some other mythological magical creature from the pages of sacred texts flies down from the sky and slaps you upside the head.
Bang them pots long and loud
God is capitalized you infidel. Like I said, those who are ungodly are the ones who support the Duke 3 because they recognize fellow evildoers. Preachers are praying for Nifong and the accuser all over Durham.
I'll be going to an early service, others in Durham can do the same.
I will then be available to walk to support justice in Durham for all. Regardless how you feel about this case, a DA that lies in court and hides exculpatory evidence should not be in such a postion of power.
I will walk to show my support for justice (first) and support for the families that have been so harmed by our DA.
I bet Victoria P will be there... what say you? I guess she'll be attending an early service too....
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