Dear Mr. Sharpton
It's me, Joan, from the Liestoppers blog. Sir, I saw you on a talk show. When asked about the disparity between the reaction to the Jena case and the Duke case, sir, you said "if asked" you would get involved in the Duke case.
So, Mr. Sharpton, I'm asking.
Sir, we need a federal investigation here. We need an engaged media. We need powerful politicans expressing their rage in photo-ops in front of the courthouse. You seem to be able to conjure all this stuff up at will. I'm going to be blunt here. We can't.
Mr. Sharpton, sir, we need you.
Oh, those Blog Hooligans on our board are fine, dedicated people. Our Quasimoto has had them writing and calling and petitioning and begging Anna Mills Wagoner for a federal investigation for months. Let me just quote The Beatles here: "No reply."
Sir, don't tell the Hooligans I said this, but they just don't seem to have what it takes. Their outrage just doesn't seem to count for anything on the federal or even state level. They have no power base, control no voting block, are nobodies in political terms. Nobody listens to them. Nobody wants to pose with them, put an arm around their collective shoulders, or claim their friendship. Not like they do with you, sir, and Jesse, and your other friends. They are voices crying in a political wilderness. Candidate Edwards couldn't hear them all this time... right there in the next town over. But, gosh, he hears your faintest whisper and shouts out FOR YOU. That Elizabeth Dole has been hard of hearing too. Even though she knew Dave Evans personally, she's been unwilling to claim the um-m-m acquaintance. But if YOU were involved, why, I bet politicos would stand right next to you, call themselves neighbors and dear friends of these fine youths, and eagerly take up the cause.
Sir, you are GOOD. No really. How do you do it? Six black boys in Jena beat up one white boy and politicians are climbing over each other to help those boys out. No one is demanding they apologize to their victim first. The feds are very publicly looking into it, and the Press is uniformly empathetic toward them. Yet, the lacrosse team endured a year because of a hellish, cold-blooded frame, and some Duke professors still spit on the ground and demand THEY apologize for the party. Yet, totally missing from those hallowed halls is any call for an investigation, accountability, or even a mild rebuke of Durham's rogue police department. It wouldn't be like that if YOU took up our cause. You could make a difference.
Maybe, sir, if YOU were involved, Ms. Lubiano would allow Dick Brodhead to pose for a picture and demand the rights our Constitution is supposed to provide for all for ...well...Collin, Reade, and Dave. Maybe your presence would move her beyond her "white innocence means black guilt" problem. Justice is supposed to be color-blind, right, sir? But let's face it. Dick Brodhead can't speak out demanding reform in Durham as he has done..oh, in other countries...unless he has cover with his faculty from someone like you. We understand that. Anyway, Quasi can give you his number. We know he would never REFUSE to meet with you. Calling Mr. Brodhead for us would be a good start.
Then, would you please call Ms. Wagoner and tell her you're warming up the buses? Tell her she'd better have the Feds on the way to Durham before you and yours make it into town. They'd be there waving as you arrived. We all know this.
Tell Bob Ashley he'd better have parking for them in front of the Herald-Sun. Call Barry Saunders and tell him to cut the cracks and have a couple hundred fish sandwiches ready for your marchers. Cash Michaels can help you set up a "Durham's Brother Connivers" venting website (he has experience in this). Tell Ruthie Sheehan to get her mojo back and use her column to demand sweeping reform in this corrupted, cave-mentality town.
Sir, flex that power that puts you on any media outlet at will and tell them, the audience, the country at large..that Reverend Al will not stand for a system of justice that supports a willful frame, suppresses the civil rights of three young men, and seriously undermines our faith and our future!!! Tell Them, Sir! Tell them that you will not tolerate leaving a system in place that denied Collin, Reade, and Dave their rights... based on their color and the supposed content of their Daddies' wallets. Inform them that Al...THE Reverend Al Sharpton... is in Durham till ALL people's rights are secured, the system scourged, and the guilty set to pay!
You can do this for us, sir.
You offered. And we accept.
Joan
77 comments:
Joan:
Beautifully done!
Ken
Dallas
since most of you on Liestoppers are inveterate racists who routinely villify Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as race pimps( and worse), I wouldn't hold my breath on waiting for him to call for a federal investigation to help those who told some black women to thank their grandfather for their cotton shirt and the N word. Not in this lifetime. And Sharpton prevailed in the Jena 6 situation because black people marched en masse and let everyone know that they were not going to take some racist b---s--- without some trouble. The boy was eventually released to avoid that trouble. Plain and simple. Blacks in America did not get rights because whites gave it to them, they had to force whites to do the right thing; the biggest civil rights legislation came AFTER the death of MLK and the urban riots of the 1960's.
Had the victim here in durham not been a stripper, the people would have marched here too and you can bet Cooper would not have said all that innocent b---s--- that he did had he seen a show of black support for her as he wants to be elected governor. Of course, you are too stupid to figure that out.
12:32 AM
Thanks, sir ( or ma'am), I think folks like you are helping us figure it out.
It may just take white people taking to the streets, and renting the busses and carrying the placques, and banging the pots, and demanding EQUAL rights.
Thanks for the lesson.
Too bad that some of your truly GREAT ancestors paid the price for your FREEDOM, so you could turn around and turn a deaf ear and heart to those whose freedoms are being robbed.
It's not about CIVIL RIGHTS, or EQUAL RIGHTS, is it? It's about reverse-racism. And it is JUST as UGLY on you as it was on US.
The sad thing is, when this happens EVERYBODY looses and we throw away the gains that BOTH sides have worked so hard for for so many years.
This is the stupidest letter I have read in a long time. I only wish that it was just the viewpoint of a few. But I'm afraid it isn't.
The people you represent just show up when there's a TV camera... on YOU.
Joan, very clever, indeed.
And the response you provoked is priceless.
whites don't have to show up,picket, etc. their civil rights were guaranteed by the constitution, etc as the US was founded by whites and was designed to protect their rights, etc. even the electoral college is set up so that white males, not the people,actually elect the president; the US was never about true equal rights and enfanchisement historically. blacks had to go through hell just to get basic civil rights and it had to take special voting rights acts, etc in the constitution to even safeguard the basics.
the duke 3 did not have their civil rights violated. they were accused of a crime and indicted and were perfectly free to go to court and refute it and be exonerated in court by a jury of their peers but chose not to do so and chose to have a big pr campaign to avoid court at all costs instead and now are trying to make everyone believe they were violated more than say a person in prison for 20 years. Only no right thinking person is going to come to that conclusion and this will play out in federal district court. they may win but it will not be the payday they are thinking it is.
Everyone in NC heard about their greedy 30 million dollar demand to the City of Durham and the jurors will have to come from the middle district of NC, where the median income is around $25,000-35,000 and some of the counties in the district have as high as 30% of blacks by poopulation( and not just Durham county, either. Chatham, Scotland, Richmond, Guiliford,Hoke, Caswell, etc are all in the 30% range as well and are part of that district)so it is not an all white jury situation and they are not going to face a particularly sympathetic jury nor one inclined to give these spoiled and greedy disrespectful young men 30+ million so they can go on drinking and disrespecting people at their leisure.
Reverse discrimination is more than prevalent in our country and until the Feds operate in a more balanced manner, I shall remain devoid of much confidence in, or hope for, our system.
This country bent over backward to assure equality and look where we find ourselves today. Nothing is ever enough . . . I find it most discouraging. I had high hopes for this country when equal rights were given.
I'm beginning to think it's time to start marching and sending buses in - it seems to work. It's just taken a long time to figure this out.
I am very, very sad. I have many black friends who do not see race anymore than I do, I was raised that we are all equal and tried to teach my 3 sons the same. BUT, this next generation of white males are finding this is not the case. Open season on whites. My opinion is also changing, beginning to feel deep resentment for people like the 2:39. You just may reap what you have been sowing. The sleeping white giant just may awaken out of his 30 year slumber. History tends to repeat itself, we do not learn.
Great letter Joan!
2:39. I am sorry for all that sordid unfair history. I am sorry for what happened to the Native Americans. I am sorry for what happens anywhere in this world where people of any race or creed are disenfrachised or injustice happens.
But it is totally stupid to pursue innocent blood to make up for historic injustices, because that just perpetuates the whole rotten mess.
The guilty people in the LAX case are NOT the 3 men.
The guilty people are the people who KNEW they were innocent and conspired to frame them.
THey did not need a trial to PROVE their innocence. Evidence did that. If Nifong and his crowd he just acknowledged that, we would not be having this conversation.
But he was willing to KNOWINGLY conspire with Duke, and the DPD, to frame them.
How can you possibly be so ignorant of the constitutional rights that assume "innocent until proven guilty"? That is what this is all about.
If you say that it is okay to throw that protection away just because you don't like these guys and their families, then we are back to square one where it is okay to do that to YOU and YOURS, because we don't like you.
Don't you understand that if you are willing to continue this line of reasoning, it will end up coming back on YOU, not just them???
Justice SHOULD be colorblind. Just because what happened in the past was WRONG, does not mean we have to continue to do it.
You seem reasonably intelligent and verbal.
Wouldn't it be better for mankind if you used those gifts to HEAL rather than to tear down?
And 12:32, you are too stupid to figure out that the letter from Joan Foster was satire.
We "racists" know that Reverend Al would never get involved in a case where someone's civil rights were truly violated. He favors fake stuff like Tawana Brawley (no rape "victim" there either, right?), the Freddie's Fashion Mart fiasco, and now, the Jena 6.
I live in NC, though thankfully far away from Durham, the Armpit of the Piedmont. As it stands, people who think like you are stinking up the joint known as NC, just like that evil white man, Jim Black, the former NC rep who is now doing a stretch in a federal pen for his crooked ways.
See, I'm an equal opportunity "racist." I freely admit my prejudice against jerks like Nifong, Black, Sharpton, and Jackson, who try to get rich by perpetrating lies.
Count me as one who is hoping that the civil case that has just been announced is the deodorant that has been needed in Durham for years. Thirty million? Hah! I hope they get 10 times that amount and bring Durham to its knees. Only then is there even a chance that the rot that has so thoroughly infested Durham will be cleaned up.
One thing is for sure. You will probably live your entire life with the bitterness that comes from the fact that the lacrosse team was as innocent of the charges in March 2006 as they were the day that Cooper said it in April 2007. Richard Brodhead's statement notwithstanding, the facts never changed in 13 months.
I noticed some typos in someone else's post and thought I'd post a corrected version.
"since most of you on Liestoppers are inveterate realists who routinely point to Sharpton and Jesse Jackson's records of acting like race pimps (and worse), I wouldn't hold my breath on waiting for him to call for a federal investigation to help those who can be exploited to gain a further undeserved reputation as looking out for blacks. Not in this lifetime. And Sharpton prevailed in the Jena 6 situation because black people marched en masse and let everyone know that they were not going to pay any attention to the actual facts without some trouble. The boy who had participated in several violent assaults before and was about to be punished as a repeat offender was eventually released to avoid that trouble. Plain and simple. Blacks in America did not get rights because whites gave it to them, they had to force whites to do the right thing; the biggest civil rights legislation came AFTER the death of MLK and the urban riots of the 1960's. Which is why Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton now specialize in using force to get whatever they want, right or wrong, and they tarnish the legacy of MLK by pretending that it has something to do with civil rights.
Had the false accuser here in durham not been talking to a corrupt police department working with a corrupt district attorney, the people would have actually found out that she was a mentally ill woman who arrived at the party already wasted out of her mind on booze and Flexeril and you can bet Cooper would not have had to step in in order to say what any person of integrity, black or white, would have had said looking at the facts: this accusation is at best the hallucination of the accuser's drugged mind and at worst a cynical lie. Of course, you have already figured that out, which is why you are challenging Al Sharpton to pay as much attention to a real offense against justice as he did to the Jena 6 affair."
There, fixed. You're welcome.
"the duke 3 did not have their civil rights violated."
Bullshit, they didn't. What do you call it when the police and prosecutor deliberately withhold evidence that shows defendants' innocence? When the defendants are black, I know you call it a violation of civil rights. The fact that you call it something else when the defendants are white is a stark sign of shameful ignorance.
"they were accused of a crime and indicted and were perfectly free to go to court and refute it and be exonerated in court by a jury of their peers"
They were accused of a crime, by a mentally ill drug abuser who didn't claim anything about being attacked until a) it was improperly suggested to her and b) it was just about her only alternative to being involuntarily committed. Are you telling me that you'd be okay with black defendants getting indicted every time some mentally ill drug abuser wants to avoid involuntary commitment?
"Nah, officer, I'm not out of my head because I chose to mix alcohol with a powerful muscle relaxant... uh... it was because ..."
"Were you raped?"
"-- yeah! Yeah, I was raped by those three black guys! That one there was the ringleader -- the chubby one!"
"Can you pick him out of this lineup?"
"Uh... this is one of those lineups that'll trap people who are lying, if they pick a photo and say 'that person was there' and it turns out that's a photo of someone who's dead or in another country or something, isn't it?"
"Yes, it is."
"Then I can't pick anyone."
"Okay. Let's try another lineup."
"Another that can trip me up?"
"Yup."
"Then I can't pick anyone."
"Hey! Guess what! I've got a clever idea! I'm going to show you a bunch of photos, just like I did before, but because we're not calling it a lineup, I don't have to show you pictures of anyone but lacrosse players! Did you understand that? That no matter which photo you point to, it'll be a lacrosse player?"
"Oh, I can pick someone now. Like this guy here, he was definitely in on it!"
"Actually, he wasn't even in Durham that night. But that's why I'm here -- I'll make sure you pick three players who weren't quite so obviously picked at random."
"Then let me pick this one here -- this lean and baby-faced one was the ringleader!"
"I thought you said the ringleader was chubby?"
"How do you expect me to remember what I made up weeks ago?"
"Well, we'll just pretend that weeks ago you called him 'lean and baby-faced.' Boy, it's a good thing this isn't a lineup, wink wink!"
Frankly, Courthouse Connie, you're an idiot. If three black defendants were indicted based on evidence as obviously falsified as it was in the Duke case you'd never talk ignorant bullshit about "they were perfectly free to go to court and refute it"; instead you'd be screaming up a storm about how the white man is always holding the black man down. You'd scream that there's no reason the defendants should have to have their reputations trashed, should have to go into debt hiring lawyers who can dig out all the dirty details of a police frame-up, when the initial charges were so obviously bullshit. And for once you'd be right about the legal system but it's a shame that your reasoning would be "this isn't the way the justice system should be working when it's black people who are accused" and not "the justice system should never be corrupted like this, period."
Joan
Why are you writing to Sharpton, who at best is an opportunist and racist?
Why empower a low-IQ porker who lacks the talent to secure a decent job?
What--you think this punk is king of all blacks?
You are being a bit racist yourself to single out this race hustler as having any relevance to injustices in Durham.
Joan, your letter is totally inappropriate.
We simply must do something about the Post Office in Durham. Courthouse Hag hasn't received her welfare check yet and she's hopping mad. All it takes to bring out the cockroaches is another great piece by Joan.
Joan,
With all due respect, isn't it time to move on? Let's look at the reality of the situation:
1) The boys were screwed by a corrupt criminal justice system.
2) They were vindicated by top notch defense attorneys.
3) Over the past year their status has gone from potential felons to celebrities.
4) None of the professors or the cops are ever publicly going to admit they were wrong.
5) The case could serve as a poster child for reverse discrimination.
6) When the civil litigation is settled the boys will be multi millionaires.
7) Once the boys were found innocent, the majority of the public lost interest in the case.
Joan, isn't time to stop with the sarcastic letters (as true as they may be), and just move forward?
Notice that now that the race hustlers and agendanistas have lost this case, "it's time to move forward"??
F You, creepy Durhamite
It's payback time!
2:23
Suppose this were a medical malpractice suit? Your child or mine recovers, but the medical center, the administrators, the nurses that had lied and manipulated and provided the necessary elements for the rogue "doctor" to maim and defile and ESCAPE DETECTION remain right there in place. The system stays exactly as corrupted as it was.... allowing for this tragedy that's been endured to happen over and over again to others. How long to the next victim? Do we just look out for our own and walk away? That's what you're suggesting.
Yes, if you only care about you and yours, you take your money and you wash your hands of the dirty town of Durham. You let the liars, and the enablers, and the corrupt cops and officials stay in power where they can hurt again and again.
Do you take this position about other causes? Just shut up , stay home. or let it be? Or just this one?
It takes courage to stay and expose the rot. Hopefully, the penalties will be severe enough to reverberate to other corrupt and racist cities and serve as deterrent.
These families have that courage. The self-serving thing to do, would be just what YOU suggest. Walk away. Go on with their good and comfortable lives. Turn their backs on the folks still stuck in the obscenity called Durham. Next time it may be a teacher's son or a clerk's child, a janitor's kid.
Thank God they haven't. And we won;t either.
Ronmet says;
One problem with some southerners is their inability to recognize Sarcasm.
Also racists of any colour are inclined to lack a sense of humor, and become objects of amusement...
Joan, as a Duke parent and a member of the FODU, I tried to help Dave, Collin, and Reade as much as I could. I blogged constantly at the FODU website, Liestoppers, JinC, and DIW; tried to contribute the fundraisings as well. I liked your postings very much, yet I disagree with something on this one. I tried to explain the following in KC's website sometime ago and I would like to explain it one more time here: I followed Jena, LA case from the local media ever since the media started to report. Your explanation "...six black boys in Jena beat up one white boy and politicans are climbing over each other to help these boys out" is simply misleading. Nobody said that six boys won't be punished and/or anybody approved what had happenned. M.Bell's mom said that her son needs to be punished following the fight. I read this in the local newspaper several months ago. 20,000 + people walked because the punishment didn't fit the crime. M.Bell was only 16 when the DA sent him to the adult court and put him into the adult prison in December 2006. The point is that these boys needed to go to the juvanile court not to the adult court. Bell spent 10 months in the adult prison. In Louisiana, you have to be 17 in order to go to the adult court. That was the point why people raised their voice so that the boys can be tried in the juvanile court and now this is the next step. Louisiana Governor, Ms. Blanco, also played a great role while Mr. Easley was "sleeping" during the Duke Lax incident. I hope this clears a litle bit.
Duke Mom,I believe the Jena Six were overcharged. That being said... where was the outcry as THIS injustice unfolded? WHERE? Can't you see the difference? One was an overreaction; the other a FRAME.
Doesn't it reek of something vile that these three Duke boys were just kicked to the curb and left there? Why such an intense difference? One was an OVERREACTION; the other a FRAME.
NOTHING happened to Crystal. Three boys indicted with no evidence.Witness intimidation.Mr. Elmostafa bearing the burden of a trial. Lies from the NCNAAP website. The self-righteous media rush to judgement. Why didn't people "raise their voice" at the Lacrosse case, Duke Mom? An OVERREACTION in Jena vs. A FRAME in Durham.
Why did NO ONE in Durham file in support of Beth Brewer's petition? Why was Nifong elected? The difference is ugly and as obscene as the "difference" you point out as a justification. An OVERREACTION vs. A FRAME.
Collin , Reade and Dave were lynched in the press, and left swinging by the politicians. This new bigotry is as ugly as the old.
Today, Rock stars are writing hymns to these Jena kids who beat another boy...six on ONE. They are media HEROES. Yet Duke Professors still smear these three about a party? One was an OVERREACTION , the other a FRAME.
Is this the future? Is this what you desire for all of us...this gulf of pandering vs. apathy?
Why was it left to the likes of you and me to speak up with our little voices for the Duke Three?
The media, the politicians etc. were content to let it happen in Durham. They needed that voting bloc.That is wrong. As wrong as the past.
You are outraged at the "different treatment" in Jena? What about HERE, in Durham? What about the different treatment by all involved NOW of the Duke boys who committed NO violent act and the Jena six who did?
Was there witness intimidation in Jena? suppression of evidence? Lying media claims? Where was the outcry about the criminal acts occurring in Durham. Not OVERREACTION of a prosecutor...criminal acts of a prosecutor. Do you understand the difference. OVERREACTION vs. a FRAME?
Still NOW, nothing.No outcry. No support. NO FEDERAL INVESTIGATION. Why?
Where was neighbor John Edwards? Too cowardly to speak up...might lose some needed votes. But he's very vocal about Jena.Where was Elizabeth Dole? Where was the justice department? OVERREACTION in Jena VS, A FRAME in Durham. Cowardly silence from self serving politicians.
I want equal rights, not trading one favored group for another.
Mellencamp's hymn of praise should be out any day.He must sing out about the OVERREACTION; not one peep about THE FRAME.
4:56:
I agree on everything that you said on Duke Lax case. I did fight for our boys just like you did; I asked the same questions over and over again just like you asked in Duke case. In my original post (4:14 pm), I just wanted to make it clear why people walked in Jena to defend Jena Six. You cannot send a 16 year old boy to an adult court and later on to an adult prison for 15 years for a school fight. The punishment does not fit the crime. Boys needed to go to a juvanile court at the first place. That's all we are saying. There is a double standard in the justice system and you can see this in Jena, LA and in Durham, NC. Cases are different but the double standard is there. And just like you do "...I want equal rights for all of us, and I do not want trading one favored group to another" as well. You said it very well.
Joan,
I understand what you are saying about the City of Durham and hopefully the terms of the civil litigation we'll help that, but what do you think is eventially going to happen and how is a sarcastic letter about Al Sharpton furthering your cause?
I remember you did an excellent piece about "piling on" many months ago when the media was criticizing the boys for the drinking and hiring strippers. Isn't that what you are doing with this letter?
It's not about "taking the money and running" it's about letting the civil litigation play out without throwing gas on the flames with a sarcastic letter about a person who played a very minor role in this whole fiasco.
If you think a criminal investigation is warranted (as I do) then positively work toward that goal. A "gotcha" letter to Al Sharpton, in my opinion, is not getting you there, and only adds fodder to the criticism of many who feel this blog and others are permeated by racists.
Otherwise, keep up the good fight and I'll keep reading.
11:23 - positively working toward a criminal investigation... any suggestions? As Joan points out, many have been working toward that goal for many months -- to no avail. Based on her post it appears Mr Sharpton indicated publicly that he has not gotten involved in the call for justice in the Duke case because no one has asked him to.... Joan's asking, he obviously has the power to do what so many have failed to do "positively" in the last year.
I agree w/ the earlier post that the Jena6 should have been tried for something less than attempted murder in adult court but again, the disparity between the Jena6 case (a crime actually was committed by those charged) and the Duke case (a hoax) -- the lack of action by the appropriate authorities, no federal investigation, no criminal investigation, no outrage by those so committed to civil rights issues in the past -- is just outrageous.
Any action/inaction based on race is racism. Racism was most definitely an issue in the Duke case -- perpetrated by those who advanced the hoax and failed to call for justice.
jmoo
I am not that familiar with Jena case, so I asking this in a sincere fashion....
Everyone is talking about overcharging these kids, one of the auguments I hear is that the kids had on sneakers while they were stomping on the other kids head? Excuse me? I think that you could probably die from the impact of a foot being stomped on you, EVEN it it has only a sneaker on it! There have been plenty of cases where a person has died because they were just pushed down and hit their head. So please stop minimizing what they did because or their footwear! It was more than a "schoolyard fight". That being said, I do think they may have been overcharged, DAs seem to like to do that, this isn't the first time, they overcharge in hopes of getting a conviction on a lesser charge. Not saying it is right, just saying it is nothing new.
Secondly, why rally around this Bell kid? I understand this is not the first time he was in trouble for violence. I had heard that he beat up a girlfriend so badly, that he broke her orbital bone and she almost lost her eye. It would seem to me IF this was true, this kid is a timebomb, he needs some serious help.
Please clear these things up for me, again, I will say I am not familiar with all the facts and would like to know more facts ( and not spin ) Thanks!
"What--you think this punk [Al Sharpton] is king of all blacks?
You are being a bit racist yourself to single out this race hustler as having any relevance to injustices in Durham."
Even if we think a person does not deserve the particular power they wield, even if we believe fully that they obtained and maintain that power by illicit means, we can still recognize them as having some measure of power. I, frankly, have very little respect for Al Sharpton, but I recognize that he has a power for summoning media attention. If you were a Democrat and had the opportunity to ask Bill O'Reilly to bring public attention to a major injustice, would you decline simply because O'Reilly isn't someone you approve of? If you were a Republican and it was Michael Moore who could bring public attention to the injustice, would you again say "Getting justice done isn't as important as avoiding contact with people like that"?
Joan -
Neither Al Sharpton nor Jesse Jackson will get involved in Durham. The reason is simple. It is not civil rights they seek but special rights for Afro-Americans. They, along with some of the other commentors here (the anonymouses at 12:32 and 2:39)have forgotten an important point in the Reverend Dr. Martin King's 'I Have a Dream' speech. It is that what matters is the content of one's character not the color of one's skin that matters. For Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson et al., it is skin color first, last and always.
Awwwww shucks, Joan, ah, well ah, after reading most of the posts . . . er, the postings here today well, ah . . . ah don't think ah care to partake of the . . . the . . . the . . . er, ah fools in er . . . ah Durham. Lots of luck to the fools in Durham and BTW the boys had a number played on em . . . good. They play that way at the college too . . . it's all good. It wasn't me . . . you know so it don't matter . . . right. If you don't like it move to Philadelphia or Detroit right. Get used to it. Thanks, Al Baby
A Federal Criminal investigation is what is warranted in this case. The white race has always been the one to sit back and let justice take its course. Well, in this case justice has only taken its course by the outrage, the letters, the blogging, and keeping it in the news, but it has taken a long time, work, and effort on the parts of many, many people throughout the world. That is the difference. If we need to march on the capital of NC to demand the NC politicians recognize their absence is a historical consitutional event in their state, then that is what must be done. Write letters to the U.S. Attorney General and Department of Justice, call them directly.
This is taken directly from the DOJ Civil Rights Department Web page. Their mission statement: "The Civil Rights Division is committed to upholding the civil and constitutional rights of all Americans, including some of the most vulnerable members of our society." So where are they? The acting Attorney General is Peter Keister. Call Senator Edwards, Elizabeth Dole. Make those calls and write those letters. This is about corruption in our government, not just Durham but the Federal government that turns a blind eye. Lets make the Senators and Congressmen/women do the jobs they were elected to do, stand up for the Constituiton.
From the WTVD board (local Durham station) on a thread regarding the murder of a 12 year old white girl who happened to be home during a break-in by 4 AA males:
It must be remembered by those whom are bigots, that African-Americans have suffered an almost intolerable amount of abuse, social injustices and humiliation at the hands of America's white people. And this bullying and intolerance continues even today. Consequently, it should be assumed and even accepted that America's black population is eager to extract a modicum of revenge and to retaliate for the collective social injustices which white people have forced blacks to endure. Simply put, it's pay-back time and the playing field must, and will, be leveled.
As a matter of fact, white bigots should welcome a chance to be punished by blacks. It can provide them with a ready-made opportunity to repent, atone for their sins, soothe their guilty souls and feel better about themselves. Consider such an opportunity as a unique and generous gift from an understanding black community. White America should think of retaliation by black America as justified punishment and sacrifices which they must make on the long toll road to absolute ethnic diversity and multiculturalism.
Tomorrow white America will celebrate Christopher Columbus Day. Needless to say, it was Christopher who paved the way for slave routes from Africa to America. Should African-Americans (or anyone else) celebrate this?
vory Tower Decay
By Michael Barone
I am old enough to remember when America's colleges and universities seemed to be the most open-minded and intellectually rigorous institutions in our society. Today, something very much like the opposite is true: America's colleges and universities have become, and have been for some decades, the most closed-minded and intellectually dishonest institutions in our society.
Colleges and universities today almost universally have speech codes, which prohibit speech deemed hurtful by others, particularly those who are deemed to be minorities (including women, who are a majority on most campuses these days).
They are enforced unequally, so that no one gets punished when students take copies of conservative alternative campus newspapers left for free distribution and dump them in the trash. But should a conservative student call some female students "water buffaloes," he is sentenced to take sensitivity training -- the campus version of communist re-education camps. The message comes through loud and clear. Some kinds of speech are protected, while others are punished.
Where did speech codes come from? There certainly weren't many when I was in college or law school. So far as I can tell, they originated after college and university administrators began using racial quotas and preferences to admit students -- starting with blacks, now including Hispanics and perhaps others -- who did not meet ordinary standards. They were instituted, it seems, to prevent those students from feeling insulted and to free administrators from criticism for preferential treatment -- treatment that arguably violates the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (although Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, the swing vote in the 2003 Supreme Court case on the subject, said they could continue another 25 years).
Racial quotas and preferences continue to be employed, as a recent article on UCLA makes clear, in spite of state laws forbidding them, and university administrators seem to derive much of their psychic income from their supposed generosity in employing them. This, even though evidence compiled by UCLA Professor Richard Sander suggests they produce worse educational outcomes for their intended beneficiaries and even though Justice Clarence Thomas makes a persuasive case in his book "My Grandfather's Son" that they cast a stigma of inferiority on them.
Of course, college and university administrators insist they aren't actually using quotas when in fact they are, as O'Connor's decisive opinion in 2003 invited them to do. The result is that one indispensable requirement for being a college or university administrator is intellectual dishonesty. You have to be willing to lie about what you consider one of your most important duties. So much for open inquiry and intellectual rigor.
This is not the only way the colleges and universities fall far short of what were once their standards. Sometime in the 1960s, they abandoned their role as advocates of American values -- critical advocates who tried to advance freedom and equality further than Americans had yet succeeded in doing -- and took on the role of adversaries of society.
The students who were exempted from serving their country during the Vietnam War condemned not themselves but their country, and many sought tenured positions in academe to undermine what they considered a militaristic, imperialist, racist, exploitative, sexist, homophobic -- the list of complaints grew as the years went on -- country.
English departments have been packed by deconstructionists who insist that Shakespeare is no better than rap music, and history departments with multiculturalists who insist that all societies are morally equal except our own, which is morally inferior.
Economics departments and the hard sciences have mostly resisted such deterioration. But when Lawrence Summers, first-class economist and president of Harvard, suggested that more men than women may have the capacity to be first-rate scientists -- which is what the hard data showed -- then, off with his head.
This regnant campus culture helps to explain why Columbia University, which bars ROTC from campus on the ground that the military bars open homosexuals from service, welcomed Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose government publicly executes homosexuals. It explains why Hofstra's law school invites to speak on legal ethics Lynn Stewart, a lawyer convicted of aiding and abetting a terrorist client and sentenced to 28 months in jail.
What it doesn't explain is why the rest of society is willing to support such institutions by paying huge tuitions, providing tax exemptions and making generous gifts. Suppression of campus speech has been admirably documented by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. The promotion of bogus scholarship and idea-free propagandizing has been admirably documented by the American Council of Trustees and Alumni. It's too bad the rest of America is not paying more attention.
Copyright 2007 Creators Syndicate Inc.
To 7:44 AM post:
In my 4:14 pm and 5:45 pm posts (October 7), I tried to explain the things matter of factly. I have never ever minimized what had happened in Jena, LA. All I was/am saying is that a 16 year old boy needed to go to the juvanile court not to an adult court and later on to an adult prison. Even the DA himself accepted this fact and gave up from the appealing process. For more info, please visit the following link for one of the newspapers in Louisiana: www.2theadvocate.com .
I am not rallying around the Bell kid. I used his name several times because he is the one who was put in jail for 10 months. Other than that I am not familier with the boyfriend/girlfriend fight. Sounds you know more details about him more than I do.
I agree with the 5:33 am post. In Jena, a crime was actually committed by those who charged and will be punished, after some struggle, in the juvanile court. In Durham, the whole case had been fabricated. 5:33 am post summarized everything in the second paragraph so well.
We are here in Liestoppers or DIW, and/or other websites for Dave, Reade, and Collin. I had no intention to direct our conversation to another area. However, if we are talking about double standard in the justice system, whatever happened in Jena, LA is another example. This is a fact, not an opinion.
11:30 AM, I think perhaps you and I are making the same point in a different fashion. What we both want is consistency.
We want it in our justice system. We want it from our politicians. We want it in our press.
The outrage that we see everywhere over Jena has to be contrasted by the long months of silence and indifference to the framing of Collin , Reade, and Dave. Good people of conscience of all colors should find this contrast abhorrent and hypocritical and unacceptable.
Any politician pontificating over Jena should be asked, "What did you do about the criminal framing of three innocent boys in Durham?"
Let's hear what they say.Let's out the duplicity. The self-serving purposes of their silence then, shouting now.
I am not arguing against involvement in Jena , I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the disparity.
I think you and I want the same thing.
To those who want us to fold our tents now, a question: if we accept the hypocrisy , if we keep silent and just shrug off the judicial atrocity in Durham, what will ever change?
If outcry won't bring a federal investigation,are you saying silent, muzzled acceptance will?
When has it ever worked that way?
10:46, you are truly one sick, ignorant individual. Go out and get a job and stop playing the victim violin. You are out of tune, the instrument is rusty and you can't play in the first place.
10:46.
So you are advocating that people who have had NO part in the crimes you cite, should pay for them?
Are you suggesting that be done by war in the streets? Because that is what anarchy is. When people take it into their own hands to settle real or imagined injustices.
Do you want these injustices to be rectified by law, or by war?
Your answer will speak loudly for the kind of person you are.
Injustices are wrong, but they are also color-blind.
Biggotry, either way, will never bring freedom to either side.
Wow, the DPD had an obligation to all parties as did the district attorney. They failed in this obligation; in fact, they made this case in their own image . . . it was corrupt from beginning to end. In many ways, many of the people of Durham are innocent of these manipulations of justice, but are, nevertheless, responsible for the actions of their police department. Persons elected or appointed by this citizenship failed to do their duty. It doesn't seem to be the first time this has happened, but rather, it appears to be one of the times this group was caught and exposed.
"However, if we are talking about double standard in the justice system, whatever happened in Jena, LA is another example. This is a fact, not an opinion."
No, it's an opinion. It would only be a fact if there were no other reasonable hypothesis except for a double standard that could explain the decisions of the justice system. Mychal Bell would not, by any stretch of the imagination, be the first juvenile who was tried instead as an adult -- a simple search on "tried as an adult" will confirm that. Obviously there are differences of opinion about when it is appropriate to try a juvenile as an adult, but one of the factors that often enters into the decision is the juvenile's past criminal history -- and it's my understanding that Bell's criminal history was significant and troubling, contrary to the initial press reports which claimed he'd never been in trouble before.
Joan,
The reason there has been no criminal investigation yet is with the exception of a few interested parties, the vast majority of people DO NOT CARE.
Convicting cops in any criminal case is difficult due to a variety of factors. Despite what many people on this blog think, this is not a slam dunk case.
Cops know the system, they know how the game is played, and you can bet THEY will have the best criminal defense attorneys in North Carolina defending them.
From the Justice Department's perspective, why would they want to take this case? Nifong has been disbarred, been criminally convicted, publicly humiliated, his career is over.
There is no huge public outcry to prosecute the cops, it's a dicey case to win a criminal conviction, and if lost, the case would be an embarrasment politically to the Justice Department.
As the Duke case progressed, there was a huge public outcry for justice. Now that the boys have been found innocent, and will be millionaires after the civil litigation is over, not enough people care anymore.
Objectively, Durham PD has to utltimately be judged on a PATTERN of misconduct...not just one case where the DA wanted to get reelected and pushed the prosecution forward. The best remedy for a malicious prosecution case is in the civil court like the boys are doing.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but...
THEY BE HONKIE JISSUM IN MAH AZZ, MAH PUZZAH AND MAH VAGEENUMS
I's the victim, Miz Joan.
Whatz aboutz Panties?
Where be dah justimicious for dah honor student?
Where be mah 30 million, Miz Joanie?
Precious
Yo 10:46,
Wake up and smell the roses dude...it's not 1492 anymore. It's not even the 1960's.
The employer I work for would love to hire more blacks but they CAN'T PASS THE ENTRANCE EXAM!
Oh you say, but the exam favors white people, even though the test has been certified as unbiased by a University Committee chaired by...you guessed it, a BLACK PROFESSOR. In your world, I guess he's just another Uncle Tom.
Keep killing each other in the ghetto over a rock of crack, having children without responsible fathers, and dropping out of high school, then ease your conscience by blaming it all on Whitey and Christopher Columbus.
That's keepin' it real.
This blog is a joke. Anyone who calls out the jerks who are self annointed arbiters of truth is summarily dismissed.
I think I'll start devoting my energies to defending Durham --
hahahahahahah
Is retiredLEO is impotent?
longtabber said:
Oh gee, a wannabe intellect wants to come out and play.
And so ... please, ... refer me to you earliest post on any blog whatsoever about this case. The first will do. Surely Google has a cache of your leap to defend the lacrosse players.
Come on. Show it.
OK azzwipe, AOL, CTV,TL,FR, ABC and here ( you want specifics hunt them for yourself or ask the board here- I'm not doing your legwork for you) Now, back to what you did?
Please... educate me ... you fuggin austraolpithecene knuckle dragger.
Some things are only possible by God Himself and educating you is one of them.
Good god-mickey-mighty ... out of what cave did your neanderthal intellect crawl.
_____________________________
But he couldn't name a single post that he made pre-march 30, 2006.
IMPOSTER.
Frankly,...there are a lot of frauds on this blog.
Beware of civil sanctions.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE (FirstDefender @ Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM)
Hello.
Note my chosen name.
My bona fides are in the Duke Chronicle, March 30, 2006. Baldo knows who I am.
I note that most if not all of the so-called defenders of the truth did not become members of this blog until August, 2006.
Where were you all in March of 2006? Sitting on the sidelines waiting until it was a layup? Still wondering what the truth was?
The truth does not waiver and does not change.
Although I think this blog contributed to a revelation fo the truth ... it was not soon enough.
Regards to all.
PS:
(retiredLEO insulted me -- so here in full view: retiredLEO will never have to worry about hemroids for he is the perfect ass. ... and way, way, way too impressed with his single generation contribution to this country. Four years active duty Marines and career PO. BFD. Not quite good enough.)
.
You joined on 8 Oct, 2007.
__________________________
Read my frickin post you cro-mangon moron.
HAHAHAHAH -- this could be fun
__________________________________
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
F U
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
F U
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
Foster's letter hits the mark and makes all the points with regard to the glaring contrasts that make the Lacrosse Hoax an historical marker for change.
Also, I'm very curious if the comments posted from the WTVD website are authentic.
Chilling.
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 588
Member No.: 578
Joined: 14-January 07
QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
Senior Member
Group: Members
Posts: 848
Member No.: 10
Joined: 24-August 06
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
You idiots. To think Al or Jessie would help your sorry behinds after you've talked about them for days on end. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. You get nothing! zero! zilch! And to think Durham, Greensboro or where ever would give these creeps 30 million for degrading women in their drunken behavior & don't forget about the cotton shirt slur and the N word being spewed...forget about it! Best take Barry Saunders advice......
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 588
Member No.: 578
Joined: 14-January 07
QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
Senior Member
Group: Members
Posts: 848
Member No.: 10
Joined: 24-August 06
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
Anonymous @1:06 PM said...
10:46, you are truly one sick, ignorant individual. Go out and get a job and stop playing the victim violin. You are out of tune, the instrument is rusty and you can't play in the first place.
10:46 was posting somebody elses words from Durham's WTVD board. Those words are truly chilling. But please don't shoot the messenger.
Anonymous @12:32 AM said...
Had the victim here in durham not been a stripper, the people would have marched here too and you can bet Cooper would not have said all that innocent b---s--- that he did had he seen a show of black support for her as he wants to be elected governor. Of course, you are too stupid to figure that out.
So you didn't march because CGM was a stripper? I think that says much about both you and "the people".
"You idiots. To think Al or Jessie would help your sorry behinds after you've talked about them for days on end. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. You get nothing! zero! zilch! And to think Durham, Greensboro or where ever would give these creeps 30 million for degrading women in their drunken behavior & don't forget about the cotton shirt slur and the N word being spewed...forget about it! Best take Barry Saunders advice......"
Courthouse Connie --
I don't think anyone seriously expects Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson to come in and stand up for the cause of civil rights when the people whose civil rights were violated weren't black. It wouldn't matter if we'd spent the entire existence of this board fawning over them and pretending they were the absolute top of the heap when it came to integrity and justice and a true regard for civil rights -- they would take one look, realize that doing the right thing would be highly unpopular with the uneducated, ignorant rabble who want to see the wrong thing done, and stay out of a situation that wouldn't flatter them.
As for your repetition of the racial remarks which were made by exactly two of the players (neither of them the ones who were indicted) after Kim Roberts by her own admission initiated an exchange of racial insults, I have no idea why you think that's a trump card. I mean, you've told us before that you work in a courthouse; are you trying to tell us that this scenario often occurs?:
Plaintiff: Your Honor, my clients were the victims of a cold-blooded frame. This frame included the perpetration of a corrupted identification procedure which deliberately circumvented the safeguards mandated for such procedures to keep them from manufacturing false evidence against the innocent. It included an officer of the Durham Police Department producing thirty-three pages of typewritten notes, allegedly representing investigation done months before -- concocted to try and explain why the police theory of the crime did not match the evidence, even though those thirty-three pages themselves failed to match the investigation that had been properly documented. It included the attempt by the Durham police department to intimidate witnesses who were giving truthful testimony which happened to be damaging to the District Attorney's frame.
Defendants: Your Honor, the three falsely accused players were at a party with someone who used bad language after they'd paid a lot of money for nothing and then were taunted by one of the women who was walking away with that unearned money.
Judge: *bangs gavel* Well, that settles it! It's okay to falsify evidence and intimidate witnesses and obstruct justice, but using bad language? That's not acceptable!
Seriously. Tell us when that's ever happened -- when a plaintiff has shown clear and compelling evidence of deliberate and malicious wrongdoing and the defendant has wriggled out of it scott-free by saying "Hey! Someone who was with that guy said the N-word!" Has it ever happened -- even in the fucked-up little town of Durham? I doubt it.
Just how repulsive was the stank emanating from Panties' crotch?
I heard it was disgusting.
Any information on this is important.
3.06
Good post. People are afraid to point out that Mangum was about as erotically stimulating as watching a monkey masturbate.
She has simian features. Why would a Caucasian want to be in the same room with her?
Joan,
Who on earth is making posts that go on for pages? Everyone is entitled to a post - but making it the length of the Encyclopedia Britannica is not the way to go about it.
BTW, I hope your accurate post on Sharpton makes him sweat! As a bigot who's lit so many fires of racist hypocrisy himself, he deserves to feel the heat! Keep on him, Joan!
Trolls at 3:06, 4:41 -- go to hell. Liestoppers doesn't need racist garbage, whether it's yours or Courthouse Connie's.
Anonymous @11:32PM said...
You idiots. To think Al or Jessie would help your sorry behinds after you've talked about them for days on end. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. You get nothing! zero! zilch! And to think Durham, Greensboro or where ever would give these creeps 30 million for degrading women in their drunken behavior & don't forget about the cotton shirt slur and the N word being spewed...forget about it! Best take Barry Saunders advice......
Jeez. For $200 an hour you can degrade me too. You can call me any names you choose. You can insult my ancestors ad infinitum. And, notably, I'd tolerate it for much longer than five minutes before becoming paralytic or sooking about it.
Concerning the so-called Jena Six, Carol Swain, black author of The New White Nationalism, writes:
Almost a year ago, my 41-year-old brother, Kevin Henderson, died from injuries he sustained on his job after he was attacked by a group of teenage boys.
According to a neighbor who witnessed the attack, five teens knocked my brother to the ground, kicking and stomping him until the neighbor intervened. Kevin staggered home, collapsed into a coma and was declared brain-dead within hours of the attack.
Do people of other races behave in this way? No. This sort of murderous pack savagery is characteristic of blacks and blacks only. Yet it is never identified as a black phenomenon. This doesn’t mean that all blacks, or a majority of blacks, or a large minority of blacks, are savages. It means that this specific type of behavior is recurrent among blacks and among no other race. And therefore in our liberal society, which lets go of moral restraints while prohibiting any consciousness of negative minority behaviors, such black savagery will be increasingly unleashed.
You so do not want to go there; if you are going to talk about racial characterstics of bad behavior, your race is the one that comes off the worse historically every time. Every race the white man came in contact with was almost wiped out by their aggression. We just celebrated Columbus day and the fact is that 50 years after he arrived, the indians who greeted him were extinct. They died of European diseases or being worked to death as slaves. All that as left of them is their name, which we gave to the Carribean sea. the Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, etc had similar problems with whites and the Native Americans here are a mere remanant of their numbers and are on reservations. There were similar conflicts in India, The Far East, Australia,Hawaii etc.The African slave trade and colonization is also well documented and was extremely brutal. So there is plenty of evidence whites have acted savagely, too.
An especially good example is the old white tactic of lynching. A typical lynching was violent and involved hanging the black victim, castrating him and then burning him while he was still alive .....and then having a picnic around the remains and don't forget to invite the women and children to watch! And how do we know all this? because those sorry cowardly racist m-------f------ers took photos and made postcards to sell to immortalize their crimes( they also kept body parts as mementos: toes were popular). Go to the Civil rights museum and see what YOUR people are capable of. See them coldbloodedly laughing and picnicing while a human being is consumed to ashes right in front of them. better yet, read a history book for yourselves and see how they exterminated the aborgines in New Zealand by 1830, etc. the Nazis are another great example of brutal and racist whites, this time with an organised and systematic version of genocide. pick up a newspaper and read the umpteenth story on a white male going crazy and shooting everyone up or being a serial killer.
Newsflash: brutality is not race specific
On the Google search engine, hit Images and type in Lynching and you can see the postcards 4:22 is talking about. Horrific!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd0_1192025762&p=1
Whoopi has joined the club. She has asked Al to apologize to Reade, Collin, and Dave. Who would have guessed?!
Please give us a break. So what if Whoopi says that? Whoopi is a black woman who once appeared in black face at a Hollywood dinner with her white boyfriend Ted Danson and made black jokes like black children look like diarrhea and off color jokes about interacial sex. She lost credibility with the black community long ago. She is a person on Tv trying to get a paycheck, ie, a 21st century Aunt Thomasina and her opinions are treated as such. She is also famous for hosting the Oscars and making jokes about passing gas. Now if someone of intellect and accomplishment like Starr Jones or Oprah had said it, there would be more of a reaction as they have more credibility with the black community. Whoopi is considered a modern Stepin Fetchit.
On lynching: Blacks were not the only ones lynched. Whites lynched whites also.
The murders of 4,743 people who were lynched in the United States between 1882 and 1968 were not often publicized. Lynching statistics were kept only for the 86 years between 1882 and 1968. Most lynchings were inspired by racial hatred, and 3,500 of its victims were African Americans. Lynchings took place in every state except four, but were concentrated in the Cotton Belt--Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Texas and Louisiana, according to an article published May 5, 2002 by Dahleen Glanton in the Chicago Tribune[1]
Whoopi asking Al Sharpton to apologize is a joke!!! And you idiots are falling over yourselves because of it. Get a life people!
Nothing is going to change the ugly truth of these creeps that chose to degrade black women and hurl racial slurs at them. Stop making excuses for these morons & call their behavior for what it is.
"Nothing is going to change the ugly truth of these creeps that chose to degrade black women and hurl racial slurs at them."
Aw, man, Connie, did your temp job moving filing cabinets at the courthouse come to an end already? Man, that must have hurt -- where else can you find a job that doesn't require intellectual effort and will tolerate bigotry like yours?
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