Friday, October 05, 2007

Explosive details In Lawsuit

The lawsuit charges that the first Durham PD investigator, B. Jones, concluded there was no evidence and decided to close the case on March 15th . However Gottlieb took it over on that same day while working "off Duty" at City Hall.


1. Gottlieb Takes Over the Investigation

80. On March 14, 2006, responsibility for investigating Mangum's rape claim was assigned to Investigator B. Jones. On or about March 15, 2006, Jones concluded that there was no evidence to proceed with a criminal investigation and that the file would be closed.

81. At that point, however, Durham Police did not close the investigation, but instead reassigned the investigation to Defendant Mark Gottlieb.

82. Upon information and belief, Gottlieb was known to supervisory officials in the City of Durham and the Durham Police Department as having a history of selective and malicious prosecution, false arrest, excessive use of force, manufacturing of evidence, and filing of false police reports against students at Duke University. Upon information and belief, Gottlieb was so notorious in his dislike of Duke students that he had even been reassigned from covering the Trinity Park neighborhood around Duke University because of his prior misconduct and abhorrent record with respect to Duke students. The house where the party occurred, 610 N. Buchanan, is located in Trinity Park.


Also on March 16th Gottlieb and Himan knew Crystal Mangum worked at the Platinum Club. That was never revealed in their published notes.


91. On or about March 16, 2006, Gottlieb and Himan interviewed Mangum. During this interview, they learned that Mangum was an exotic dancer who performed at a club called “Platinum” in Hillsborough, North Carolina, and also an “independent contractor” who worked on occasion through Angels Escort Service.

28 comments:

Carolyn said...

Jones was going to drop it.

I swear before God, despite all of my cynicism of Gottlieb, despite knowing his stupidity and hate and the ludicrousness of his statement over how he 'got' the case from Jones, I was so dumb that I never picked up that Jones was going to drop it!

Wooo, this is BIG!!

Jim in San Diego said...

This lawsuit is going to be very interesting.

Durham had the misfortune that the Duke victims were innocent. Durham's behavior was wrong, innocent or guilty. However, it is highly likely that, had the Duke players been guilty, Durham would have gotten away with it.

There is rich irony in the use of the Civil Rights Act to protect the civil rights of --- White, upperclass males.

As someone once said, "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". No one in Durham appeared to accept this principle. Now we have the denouement.

Very rich in irony.

Anonymous said...

Who would have thought that there would be such deceit?

I have a hunch the City Council is going to be re-thinking their refusal to settle.

Anonymous said...

WILL THE L Y I N G WHORE EVER BE PUNISHED?

At its most elemental, this is a case about predatory blacks feasting on white people--and getting away with it.

So, the question becomes: How does society protect innocent white men from immoral, unsocialized black predators like Crystal Mangum? You think they won't try this again?

No, we need to investigate Cooper's motivation to let the whore romp free to terrorize more white men. All the outlets of FODU have failed to address the punishment of the whore. That is inexcusable.

Jim in San Diego said...

This lawsuit will be very embarassing for the Duke administration. We still do not know how much money they paid to try to sweep the case under the rug.

However, Brodhead, Moneta, Burness, and probably many others at Duke are going to have to testify under oath as to what they were doing, especially as it related to Durham officials. This may yet end the Brodhead administration, which has been incorrigibly inept and morally delinquent.

Very, very interesting.

Anonymous said...

I bet somebody is selling "Code of Ethics - Durham DA's office" at eBay for a good price.

Anonymous said...

My take is that this was a very clever move on the part of the Durham City Council.

This way, when the trial goes forth and the judgments are rendered, they can point to those nasty Yankee white boys with their high-priced big city lawyers as the ones who are GUILTY of making Durham taxes go up and credit go down the tank.

Durham will loose the case, but will try to make political hay out of it because they will try to shift the responsibiity from themselves and their criminal behavior to the plaintiffs.

That way, they can still re-elect their nut-cases to office, because they will become the "victims" of the Yankee abuse. They will FEED the masses the lines about not letting themselves be pushed around by those big-city lawyers ( That line plays well to the Durham audience)

Just you watch. They were not without method to their madness. It's not about money, its about blame. The Durham City Council is NOT worried about their constituencies money. They are worried about their political power. Watch the news and how the blame-shift spins begin.

dsl

gs said...

With the Feds looking into the case, does Durham really think discovery will be a good thing?

Anonymous said...

Feds or no Feds, the elections are local, and it is the local car dealers that give "good buys" to the city officials.

Anonymous said...

TO FRIENDS OF DUKE AND FRIENDS OF ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE

The evils of "affirmative action" were front and center throughout the hoax. The so-called Group of 88 could more appropriately been dubbed "Friends of Affirmative Action."

What is "affirmative action"?

Quite simply, it's parasitism. Does anyone really think the race-normed blacks involved in railroading your children--Lubiano, Holloway et al.-- are anything but middle class? Why does Duke dole out academic welfare to the black middle class?

If you start to think of affirmative action for what it really is--parasitism--you will end it pronto. Do you think a G88 would exist in a parasite-free university environment?

Time to begin exterminating. Cockroaches are infesting every department at Duke, and the diversity pimps now have their sights on the hard sciences.

It's time to act. Start telling the truth about the academic infestation.

Anonymous said...

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse . . . it is worse.

Anonymous said...

How come Buggy and good officer Sheldon were not screaming from the airways, newspapers and roof tops that Crystal was not raped? Surely, two police officers would have brought this case to a close when they corrected the DA in public. Did they not have a duty to the defendents and as representatives of the police department? What is that about?

Carolyn said...

"Surely, two police officers would have brought this case to a close when they corrected the DA in public."

Honey, are you KIDDING? Did you see what the DA DID to anyone who dared to 'correct' him in public back then? Excuse me, but does a cab driver threatened with prison because he 'corrected the DA' about Reade's alibi ring any bells with you? Kim's own 'correction' (calling the rape claim a 'pile of crock') nearly got HER ass thrown in jail until she changed her story. Reade 'corrected' the DA about his own innocence - and the result was handcuffs and racists screaming 'dead man walking' at him. Trust me, buster, you took your life in your hands back then to 'correct' Nifong. And even if you did correct him, what would that do? He was backed by corrupt cops, corrupt judges and a corrupt City Hall. He was even backed by the Gang wanting to 'correct' those kids with castration and Nancy Grace and the Times wanting to 'correct' them with life imprisonment! Trust me, you 'corrected the DA' at your own peril.

Jones was damned smart to have kept quiet as she did. That Shelton spoke out as much as HE did was a stunning act of bravery. Frankly, I would have had to swallow hard to have matched his bravery.

Anonymous said...

This is going to be most interesting. As a Durham resident (transplanted from the North) I believe the boys should get paid - $30 million each. But I question raising property taxes to pay what the boys are owed. I think an across the board tax on consumer goods would be better. That way, those who are not property owners who helped continue the hoax by voting for Nifong will contribute for their stupidity and "even if they didn't do it, they should pay" mentality. And I will drive to Chapel Hill, Cary or Raleigh to do my shopping - and house hunting.

Anonymous said...

1:24 Got it. Only Some people had a duty to go to the press, airways and Tv. Not the police, of course. What a surprise - selective outcry.

Anonymous said...

"Corrected the DA at your own Peril"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 4:38 PM --

Sorry, but the facts don't support your racist analysis of the situation. Even assuming that Crystal Gail Mangum's lies were a 100% cynical attempt to falsely accuse the three lacrosse players -- she did nothing to those three white men that she hadn't done earlier to three black men in the Creedmoor allegations. And again, even assuming that Mangum's actions were purely those of a predator fixed on advancing her own situation at the expense of all others, was she the biggest predator in this mess? Hardly. Nifong did far more to prey on the players and he was white.

Mr Fungi said...

4.24

Why do you suppose it is that black predators show a preference for whites?

The whore withdrew her allegations against the brothers, while over more than a year she attempted to place innocents in jail for 30 years.

Black crime is very much a part of the hoax.

Anonymous said...

4:24 Your post is so true.
6:10 Enough racism -
1:24 That was not what you were wrining about the nurse and her duty and failure to correct the DA in public.

Anonymous said...

why correct 6 10? that sort of racism is de riguer here. its usually like a KKK rally here so why change now?

Anonymous said...

I hope that sort of racism is NOT de riguer here. Perhaps, I have been concrntrating on other thing and missed the obvious clues until today. None the the less, this stuff can not continue in a educated, sophisicated global world. We must recognize this as race baiting and clear itout of our thinking, It has no place in an honest debate, Let us try harder to look at facts and ot emotions.Having a hateful view of others is mean and nasty - it can come back to haunt you from your karma, We need to treat others the way we wish to be treated,

Anonymous said...

At the NCCU forum, after the SBI testing of the Rape Kit showed no evidence of a rape, Mike Nifong told the crowd, his presence at the forum meant the case was not going away. What delicious irony! RIght now, I bet little Mikey is wishing the case had gone away.

Anonymous said...

Trust me, you 'corrected the DA' at your own peril.
Jones was damned smart to have kept quiet as she did. That Shelton spoke out as much as HE did was a stunning act of bravery. Frankly, I would have had to swallow hard to have matched his bravery. {snip}

It truly sickens me that speaking up for what is right is deemed as a personal danger. I know this, as my own family have been afraid for my safety for shouting from the rooftops about the abject corrosion and criminal acts of Law Enforcement, and government officials in Durham. This is why I have always used my real name. For "protection" and to show that I am not going to hide behind a burka.

WE the PEOPLE should not fear telling the truths, and be able to stand up for our civil and personal rights as citizens and individuals.
This is a sad reflection of the times we live in. I am not going to remain silent and sit idly by and watch Rome burn. I guess I was born an activist. It is in my blood, and is the power that fuels me. Prayers also sustain me above all! I have no fear of man, but of God.

I care more for my soul, and am not afraid to speak out. Anything less is abating. Doing nothing makes you part of the problem. We cannot allow ourselves to be afraid of whistle blowing, because somebody has to come forward. It is not an act of bravery, but a moral act of responsibility. It is our human duty.

Nothing good comes from division. It is a strategic way of confusion, used as a tool to deflect attention.
Thank God there are people willing to protest and not run from the truths. It is not a heroic act to defend yourself. There is nothing chivalrous about demanding accountability. It is our obligation!
Rhonda Fleming
Cleveland, Ohio
Sister of unsolved murder victim of Durham still fighting for justice and truth

mr fungi said...

So 6.10 is a "racist"?

I suggest you examine FBI crime statistics. Strictly from an aggregate number standpoint, black predatore single out more whites than fellow blacks. Blacks are unique in that they prey on other races more than they prey on themselves. Do uncomfortable facts make you queasy?

You don't think the whore's racism had anything to do with her refusal to drop the charges?

I do.

Anonymous said...

This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record


Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310

Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.

I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.

I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.

Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.

This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.

As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.

Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.

As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.

I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.

I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.

The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.

With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.

Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.

William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007

Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM


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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM


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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon

Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM


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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon


The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.

Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.



Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM


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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."

And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.

"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."


longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM


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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?


You beat me to the draw on that one

Also

WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?

I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?

As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.

I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?

As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.

It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance

I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.

Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)


At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.

You made this public WHEN?

Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.

Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?

This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.

The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.

Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.

I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.

And their LIABILITY?


to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.

Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.

Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.

I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them

This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ

Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them

Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM


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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.

Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.

joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM


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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.

"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.

Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.

And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."

snip

"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.

They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.

Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.

Shut down the team."


Followed by:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html

Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006



This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.

When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.

Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?

Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?

Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?

Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?

Where? Just give me one link.



Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM


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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.

The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?

If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?

NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.

If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?

The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.

Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?

What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?

-----

How about my Timeline, Mayor?


April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.

Night of April 11th
------------------

You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:

"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."

April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.

Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.


I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!







kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM


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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM


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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!


.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.

Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.

Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?

It doesn't happen.

Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.




longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM


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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!


You know what really scares me.

Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?

Even worse- are they really being fooled?

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM


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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM


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.

It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.

Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?

Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?

There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.

If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.

The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.


.

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM


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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish


.
I asked him questions on the Radio.

He Played Dumb - real dumb.

He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.

He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.

The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.

.

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish


Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)

.
I asked him questions on the Radio.

He Played Dumb - real dumb.

He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.

He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.

The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.

.


He Played Dumb - real dumb.

Playing?

Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM


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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM


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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.

Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.

On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.

On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.

On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.

On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?

On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?

On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.

By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?

It is too bad that there were no warning signs.

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM


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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.

sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM


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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.

He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM


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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.


.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head


Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.


.


Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.

Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?



Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.

Walt-in-Durham

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM


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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?



Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.

Walt-in-Durham


In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM


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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.

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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.

Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM


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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.


meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!

DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head


It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."

Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.



FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.

It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.

Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?

Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?

There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.

If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.

The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.


.


Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'

Hmmmm.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.

Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?

Even worse- are they really being fooled?


Yes...they are.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM


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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:

http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf

Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM


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I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does

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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record


Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310

(snip)

I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.

(snip)

At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.

(snip)

With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.

(snip)


William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007


Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:

"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM


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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.



JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.

maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM


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Oh my, where to start?!?





QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.



If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?



ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM


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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."



Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.






LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.

I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more

Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!

Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context

I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.

Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.

March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."

March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."

March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.

"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."

March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.

The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."

April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.

April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?

BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.

April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?

BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.

July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.

"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.

Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."

April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.

kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM


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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.

I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.

I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.


maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM


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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)

I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.



Police document details lacrosse events

By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm


Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.

/

Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more


Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM


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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?





QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.



If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?


I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html


longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more


Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.


That darn "red wall of silence"

Foiled again

Anonymous said...

This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record


Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310

Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.

I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.

I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.

Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.

This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.

As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.

Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.

As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.

I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.

I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.

The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.

With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.

Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.

William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007

Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM


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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM


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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon

Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM


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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon


The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.

Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.



Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM


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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."

And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.

"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."


longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM


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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?


You beat me to the draw on that one

Also

WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?

I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.

What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?

As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.

I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?

As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.

It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance

I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.

Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)


At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.

You made this public WHEN?

Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.

Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?

This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.

The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.

Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.

I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.

And their LIABILITY?


to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.

Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.

Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.

I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them

This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ

Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them

Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM


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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.

Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.

joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM


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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.

"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.

Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.

And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."

snip

"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.

They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.

Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.

Shut down the team."


Followed by:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html

Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006



This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.

When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.

Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?

Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?

Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?

Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?

Where? Just give me one link.



Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM


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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.

The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?

If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?

NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.

If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?

The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.

Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?

What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?

-----

How about my Timeline, Mayor?


April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.

Night of April 11th
------------------

You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:

"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."

April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.

Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.


I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!







kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM


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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM


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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!


.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.

Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.

Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?

It doesn't happen.

Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.




longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM


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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.

"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."

Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!


You know what really scares me.

Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?

Even worse- are they really being fooled?

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM


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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM


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.

It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.

Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?

Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?

There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.

If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.

The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.


.

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM


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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish


.
I asked him questions on the Radio.

He Played Dumb - real dumb.

He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.

He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.

The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.

.

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).

Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.

Great posts guys!


That would be cool.

I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.

I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.

We can always wish


Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)

.
I asked him questions on the Radio.

He Played Dumb - real dumb.

He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.

He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.

The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.

.


He Played Dumb - real dumb.

Playing?

Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM


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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM


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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.

Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.

On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.

On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.

On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.

On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?

On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?

On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?

In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.

By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?

It is too bad that there were no warning signs.

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM


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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.

sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM


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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.

He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.

Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM


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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.


.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head


Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.


.


Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.

Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?



Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.

Walt-in-Durham

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM


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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?



Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.

Walt-in-Durham


In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.

Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM


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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.

Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM


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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.

Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM


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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.


meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!

DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."


bonk bonk on the head


It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."

Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.



FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM


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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.

It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.

Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?

Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?

There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.

If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.

The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.


.


Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'

Hmmmm.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.

Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?

Even worse- are they really being fooled?


Yes...they are.

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM


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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:

http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf

Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM


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I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does

JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM


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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record


Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310

(snip)

I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.

(snip)

At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.

(snip)

With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.

(snip)


William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007


Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:

"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM


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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.



JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.

maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM


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Oh my, where to start?!?





QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.



If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?



ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM


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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."



Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.






LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.

I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?

longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more

Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM


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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!

Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context

I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.

Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.

March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."

March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."

March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.

"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."

March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.

The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."

April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.

April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?

BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.

April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?

BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.

July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.

"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.

Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."

April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.

kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM


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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.

I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.

I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.


maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM


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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)

I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.



Police document details lacrosse events

By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm


Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.

/

Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?

ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM


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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more


Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.

Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM


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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?





QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.



If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?


I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html


longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM


Senior Member


Group: Members
Posts: 848
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Joined: 24-August 06



QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in

lots of material for us if she does


If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.




It would be entertaining.


Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."




HMMMMMMMMMM

tell me more


Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.


That darn "red wall of silence"

Foiled again

Carolyn said...

Early on this thread, a poster asked: "Surely, two police officers would have brought this case to a close when they corrected the DA in public." I replied to that poster by saying that, although Shelton was incredibly brave to speak out, Inspector Jones was "damned smart to have kept quiet as she did."

I was wrong.

As a later poster correctly pointed out, my 'damned smart' statement contradicts my former insistence that people SHOULD have spoken the truth. The silence of so many, particularly those such as Brodhead, was what allowed the lies of Nifong and Levicy to flourish, for which 3 innocent young men nearly paid with prison.

It was true what I said that those who did break the silence paid a huge price - Shelton was attacked by the DPD and Elmostafa was threatened with prison, etc. But I was wrong to write that was justification for them to be silent at all.

My sincere apologies.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn - Thanks for the apology = You have shown your intregerity.