Details of Undisclosed Police Document Revealed in Durham Herald-Sun Article
Durham Herald-Sun Reporter, Ray Gronberg, dropped a bomb on the City Council's meeting scheduled for this Thursday with the report of an undisclosed police document that "investigators talked with the accuser more than they disclosed previously, and that Mayor Bill Bell and other high-ranking city officials convened two days before a stalled case got a jump start with a photo lineup that violated policy."
It also details that Investigator Himan interviewed the false accuser, Crystal Magnum, more than he reported and did not reveal in his notes.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg : The Herald-Sun
DURHAM -- A police document detailing new information about the Duke lacrosse case investigation reveals that investigators talked with the accuser more than they disclosed previously, and that Mayor Bill Bell and other high-ranking city officials convened two days before a stalled case got a jump start with a photo lineup that violated policy.
Bell urged police to expedite a resolution to the case partly because he worried that racial unrest could erupt, he acknowledged Tuesday. That fear was hidden from his public statements at the height of the Duke lacrosse case when he expressed confidence in Durham's racial unity and condemned national media portrayal of black-white tension.
A copy of the police document -- labeled "Timeline of events for council" but kept so tightly under wraps that it may never have reached elected officials -- was obtained by The Herald-Sun.
Among other data entries, the timeline said Ben Himan, Durham's lead detective in the Duke lacrosse case, spoke to the accuser on March 28, 2006. That discussion isn't mentioned in the case notes of either Himan or his supervisor, Sgt. Mark Gottlieb.
According to the document, Bell met with Himan March 29, 2006, two days before authorities agreed to conduct a photo lineup that violated city policy but prompted indictments of three innocent men.
Documentation shows City Manager Patrick Baker and former Police Chief Steve Chalmers were at the discussion. It occurred in a regularly scheduled Wednesday morning meeting that allows Bell, Baker and Senior Assistant to the City Manager Reginald Johnson a chance to confer about the city's business..." Herald-Sun
The article also reports about another high level meeting when the case was stalled and makes clear that City Manager Baker, Mayor Bell, high level City of Durham Officials, and Duke University Officials were discussing the investigation which would result in three innocent Duke Lacrosse players being indicted for a crime that never happened. At that time all 46 Lacrosse players were being investigated and being publicly scorned in the community and on campus by the Duke Professors called the 88. Wanted posters of the Lacrosse Team were later distributed on campus. It raises the question was justice denied the entire Lacrosse team to "solve" a potential racial community upset over a crime which didn't happen.
A racial problem that was created by the false accusations of Crystal Magnum and repeatedly in the inflammatory remarks of Durham PD Crime-stoppers Cpl Addison on WRAL TV, in the Durham Herald-Sun, and the NewsObserver. Those comments would claimed a young Black college student, mother of two, who was dancing for the first time before a group to support her children, was brutally raped orally, anally, and vaginally. They would later prove to be totally false as declared by NC AG Cooper.
The article reports.
"Bell's morning meeting with Himan and Chalmers was only the first high-level conference about the case to occur on March 29, 2006.
That afternoon, Himan and Gottlieb conferred with Baker, Chalmers, Deputy Police Chief Ron Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke officials, Aaron Graves, associate vice president for campus safety and security, and Duke Police Director Robert Dean. After that, the detectives met with Nifong.
The timeline -- compiled the following week by Gottlieb with help from Himan and Investigator Michele Soucie -- shows Himan met again with Nifong on March 30, 2006. Himan and Gottlieb also met with Nifong on March 31, 2006, a key date in the investigation. That is when Nifong told the detectives to show the accuser a photo lineup that omitted "fillers" -- images of people who weren't on the lacrosse team. Such a lineup violates policy because any pick would have been a lacrosse player..."
This article comes at an unfortunate time for the City Council as it is scheduled to discuss the terms of a settlement with the threatened civil rights lawsuit by attorneys representing Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann.
The deadline for the City's response is Friday Oct 5.
(Reporter Ray Gronberg - LieStoppers tips its hat to you!)
36 comments:
This is outrageous! If I were Scheck & Sullivan I would up the settlement price! When will the criminal investigation of this affair begin?
Discovery hasn't even started yet!
Where is the Federal Investigation??
duke2009mom
I always knew Duke was also in on these (secret) conversations
If Durham doesn't take the $30,000,000 settlement while they still can they're a bunch of morons.
Which of course means they won't.
Isn't perjury in here for Himan and Nifong?
Oh what a tangled web we weave.
I want to see the families take Durham for every penny. It is not about money, it is about retribution. Durham will never clean house on its own, and will never get back on track until it has cleaned house and they only way to get government to do that is hit them where it hurts, the coffers.
I say 30 million is way too low at this point. The level of deception and purposefuly intent on the part of government officials of the city and state is incredible. And this is only the beginning. Double the price.
Now Mayor Bell and High Ranking Durahm City officials need to be added to the list of those investigaged by the Feds. As well as the Duke officials who met at these "secret meetings". Good Job Ray. How much else is out there that they had hoped to keep hidden from the AG and Courts?
The H-S takes an important step towards redemption. Wow!
Observer
The citzens of Durham better get down to those City Council meetings. It is sort of like letting the foxes determine whether they should spend the chicken's money to cover-up the crime of breaking into the chicken coup.
WHERE IS THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION?
The Department Of Justice and the Administration Office Of The Courts, and countless others watch this site and KNOWS exactly how deep the roots of corruption reaches. It is a wall of silence, and a deliberate coverup! It disgusts me to know our own government cares nothing for individual rights, and IMO is just prolonging the "HOAX!" You have to wonder what they are afraid of revealing, and who are they protecting? Certainly isn't the citizens, and I consider this to be one of the biggest criminal conspiracies of our lives. I am sure they are plenty more cases of the same abuses in office in each state, and the "FED"S" have no inclination to begin the domino effect.
Rhonda Fleming
Cleveland, Ohio
Sister of Durham brother, murdered in 2005, still fighting the system for an investigation, and resolution.
In Loving Memory To My Dearest Brother, Allen Jackson Croft Jr.
I vow to seek Justice and Truth, and will continue to fight for what is right. For you, for God, and for all of those who have no voice!
How I wish you were here.....
Who has any idea of the legal strategies being developed on this case?
Are they going after Duke for the 3, then for the remaining 42; Then Durham for the 3, then for the 42;
Then what / who is next?
When will the criminal cases begin?
AND WHERE ARE THE FEDS about the civil rights violations?????
Is it correct that any of the 3 could file in Federal Court in their HOME state? ( Not NC?)
That would be way cool. I can just see the potbangers boarding a plane at RDU and heading up to NY to a Federal Trial. Oh. Is this a remote possibiity?
What's next????
Hello....Hello Department of Justice are you there....Is anyone at the Department of Justice....who is the new Attorney General....Hello. Have you tried callng them? They don't know what is going on in there own department. Get the Raleigh FBI in their now.
Since the H-S claims to have the full document, why won't they *PRINT IT*.
How, oh HOW did this document just "suddenly" turn up?
Where has it been?
Who "found" it?
Who leaked it?
Is it genuine????
Check out John in Carolina's latest post at his blog.
Texas Mom
It's time for reparations. Durham owes the lacrosse players $30 million.
There were three names in that story that especially caught my eye:
- Chalmers (whoa! thought he'd stayed clear of this)
- Graves and Dean of Duke (wonder if the Duke settlement covered this!)
Those look like three levers to me.
Why the Herald-Sun?
Why now?
Brillant comments today !! Rhonda, I could not agree with you more, I am sorry about your brother, and agree that the Feds need to be more accountable.
to 1:16, 2:46, my thoughts as well, it does seem odd. I wold like to think that if real, this document was leaked by soomeone with a conscience close to the case, Himan ??
How is it even remotely possible that the FBI not get involved, the corruption seems to go very, very deep in Durham and I suspect parts of the State (e.g, I have noticed the loud silence from the 2 NC US Senators, gutless as they are). My god, where have all the honest people gone?
BDay
Amazing what this 'timeline' really says.
City Hall is pissed. It has its knives all sharpened to stab the money purse of Duke and those rich white kids and let all those coins fall into Durham's greedy hands. Except, dammit, that drug-addled, deranged whore has gone and picked out guys who weren't even at the party! Who weren't even in the fricking city that night! And without her ID, this whole case collapses! There's no medical evidence, the photos show she's a liar, she's changed her story god knows how many times, even the arresting cops didn't believe her. And now the lab has totally exonerated the players. What's worse, those damned defense attorneys have produced ironclad alibis, credit card receipts, cab driver's statements, etc. Dammit, it's all collapsing.
And that can't happen! For god's sake, City Hall has already budgeted for that pile of money they were going to shake down Duke and the kids for.
What to do? Well, call in the DPD and lay down the time line. In 48 hours, we want some results, okay? We don't give a shit HOW you do it, don't care if you have to lace her Mountain Dew, levitate her in mid-air, whatever. Just get her to identify someone, ANYONE, we don't care who. 'Cause we need to keep this case alive, okay?
---------
Yup, that's some timeline. And I hope and pray someone does time for it. 30 years.
100 Million would look like a bargain now. Hell, anything to stay out of prison looks like a bargain to the Durham Leadership (sorry, I know that is an oxymoron "Durham Leadership").
Time for Richard Dumbhead to resign, if Duke was in on these meetings and knew the players were innocent, then the whole damn administration should be fired. There is nothing more cowardly than than allowing knowingly innocent people get crucified and standing idle on the sidelines at best.
As for the G88, they represent the scum of society. People placed in positions of responsibility, acting like complete idiots. I hope Jay Bilas letter and pressure lead to major changes at Duke.
BDay
The involvement of the highest levels of command at DPD and the City Manager was evident with Himan's deposition at the Bar hearing. He was given the detail to follow up with Crystal during the period that ATTy Gen Cooper was reviewing the case. She stood him up at several meetings, she showed up late, impaired etc. Each step of the way Himan dutifully reports back to HQ exactly what is transpiring. Someone high up wanted to know in real time exactly what Crystal was saying and doing.
This is the time line that was turned over to Bell.
http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2007/10/3/Timeline.pdf
Not only did Duke throw the 3 innocent players under the bus, if they were in these meetings so early on....Brodhead and his administration were also driving the bus that ran them over. Jail time is what is need for the Duke administration and Durham city officials
So my only question here is: Where are the Feds? I get that they don't want to stir up racial feelings no one does and I applaud that. However the issue reamins that this was a case of severe racists: Nigfong, and the city of Durham's political machine, the Kangaroo Courts of Orlando Hudson.
Their faithless lack of support for the people is noteworthy. Gonzales shows even after he left why the Justice Department is such a pathetic bad joke. Have they no shame at all?
Really, is anyone here truly surprised that all this went on behind the scenes? I know I'm not, I'm just surprised that the facts have come to light. Also surprised that the H Scum printed it.
By the way, thank you for posting the article, as I refuse to give their website any hits. -Sundance-
I can tell you all for a FACT that the Administrative Office Of The Courts, US Dept Of Justice, US Senate Sgt At Arms, Library Of Congress, The Pentagon, and numerous other government and state officials do indeed watch this board each day! They damn well know what is going on, and are just watching to see what will be said to finally push them into ACTION!
The "Powers That Be" do NOT want outsiders coming in and taking part of their filthy lucre profits, or expose them for the RACKETEERS they truly are!
Why else take years to investigate?
Nifong's actions were criminal, and his cronies merely slapped his hand, and spat on the rights of the citizens. The legal system, Law Enforcement, and elected officials are knee deep in their own corruption, and people like us have them scared as hell!
Well, I say ENOUGH already and implore "THEM" to ACT! The eyes of the entire world are watching this spectacle. The media are simply enablers, and print what they are TOLD to. It is a double edged sword, and they are to cowardice to print the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth!
Thank God for blog sites such as this that have no other motive than to shine the spotlight on their abuses in office, and DEMAND reform!
I never imagined such debauchery! My father, his father, and far too many men in my family have served and fought for our freedom, and personal rights.
Then to have my beloved only brother found shot dead, dumped, and treated as if he were garbage has just pushed me over the edge. Where is HIS rights?! Durham not only failed to investigate his death, they have lied and personally threatened me. I have made thousands of requests for Internal Affairs to step in, and countless others, and have been mocked and ignored?!
An ocean of tears led me here. We had no other choice than to go as public as possible since they left us no other alternative. The LAX3 have not been the only families lives who have been turned upside down.
Murders go unsolved, trafficking women and children for prostitution continues. Drugs and gangs have taken over, murders for hire, counterfeiting, money laundering and countless other crimes, committed by Law Enforcement get swept under the rug, and they somehow believe they have pulled the wool over our eyes and that WE will remain silent?!
"Oh what fools these mortals be!"
The climate of hate created by the DukeGroup88 was instrumental in creating this fiasco.
4:11 PM
Calm down, hold on you forgot to mention the "floating penis" . . . er, was it "phallus" of the attackers . . . BTW, I am with you. This is insane . . . except these "kids" could have . . . would have been put in prison for 30 years for this dishonesty.
Let's not forget about Steel. It appears Steel was going to help with shaking Duke down for Durham.
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
Questions have been raised this week about the timeline that was developed by the Police Department summarizing its actions in the Duke Lacrosse case.
I have grown concerned that a situation that has been investigated and deliberated by some of the best legal minds is now being used to play politics with Durham’s image.
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
This case was generating a lot of media attention both locally and nationally, hence creating a considerable amount of local public attention. It had all the ingredients for the perfect storm with respect to race, alleged rapes involving students at our city’s two prominent universities with distinct student populations of different races. If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier. As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
As mayor, it is my responsibility to protect Durham, and, as this case emerged, I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check. It’s easy for those who didn’t bear the burden of leadership to be critical now. But when it came down to it, I did what I could to keep the city together while national pressure was trying to tear it apart.
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
I also want to make it clear that March 29, 2006, was the first and last time that I met with Officer Himan.
The manager reported to the city council at a public work session on April 6, 2006 that in fact John Burness was correct: the Police Department had already spoken with three Duke students as part of the investigation. For me, that was enough to satisfy my question, the question that prompted the timeline. At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline. Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden. The question was answered. The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Like Durham’s citizens, I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case. It is for that reason that I requested, and the city council agreed, to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts. Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM
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As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
Bill Anderson Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Trigger @ Oct 8 2007, 07:58 PM)
As in "Where's Waldo", can you find all the lies in this statement. Here are just a few for beginners:
-Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public
-If not handled properly, and carefully, it could have gotten uglier.
-As a responsible leader, I
-As mayor, I am constantly mindful
-Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case
-I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case
-I did what had to be done to keep tensions in check
-Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden
-it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon
The one thing that concerns me is this: Shortly after he met with police to tell them of his concerns, the police put together a bogus and illegal lineup meant to make sure Crystal picked someone.
Now, I am NOT saying Bell told them to do this. I don't know what he said, and am not about to speculate on something about which I don't have the facts. I'm just looking at the timing and wondering why these two events occurred the way that they did. I would hope that some people answer questions about this situation.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:12 PM
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"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise. I urged our community to adhere to that principle throughout the case. I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out."
And that's why I told Brodhead to cancel the Lacrosse season.
"I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Baldo @ Oct 8 2007, 07:52 PM)
Sometime prior to March 29, 2006, I heard from John Burness, the Senior Vice President at Duke University, who was concerned about reports in the news media that said the Durham Police Department was accusing the Duke students of creating a wall of silence and refusing to cooperate with the police. He believed the assertion was not accurate. John said that some of the Duke students had spoken with some members of the Durham Police Department. I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
So when & If did the Mayor announce that the players had indeed cooperated and there was no wall of silence?
You beat me to the draw on that one
Also
WHAT DID HE DO WITH THIS "TIMELINE"?
I told him that I would ask the city manager to determine the veracity of his claim.
What did he find out about this "veracity" and who did he tell?
As a responsible leader, I wanted to be sure our Police Department was conducting a thorough investigation and had the resources it needed to do so expeditiously.
I guess Bell literally "screwed the pooch" on that one didnt he?
As mayor, I am constantly mindful that whenever I speak with police or raise questions about a case that is under investigation, that I don’t want to put them in a position of compromising the integrity of the investigation, no matter the size of the case.
It seems to me the DPD doesnt need Bell's help in compromising their integrity or an investigation- they seem to do both quite well without his assistance
I warned against trying the case in the court of public opinion, especially before the facts were out.
Since you were so "on top of things"- where were your "hearty" objections when Nifong, Addison and others were spreading their LIES? ( I say LIES because when they made the majority of their statements- THEY and YOU Mr Bell KNEW they were false)
At that point, it was no longer important for me to see the actual timeline since we now knew that the students DID speak with the police, contradicting earlier statements by the police that the lacrosse players were being uncooperative.
You made this public WHEN?
Nothing was being covered up, nothing was being hidden.
Where are the press releases saying the players cooperated,no DNA matched, Crystal changed her stories, failed to pick them in multiple line ups, The available evidence REFUTED her claims ( as the AG found)?
This dude is a very polished LIAR if he is nothing else.
The only reason we’re even talking about this now is because someone on this council wants to discredit me for his own political gain. It’s petty, exploitative, and a waste of people’s time.
Bell, you dont need anyone's help discrediting yourself- you do a masterful job by yourself.
I remain interested in a thorough accounting of the Police Department’s activities in the case.
And their LIABILITY?
to establish an external independent committee to determine the facts.
Which was hand picked with no defense attorneys and public disclosure as you has originally stated? The "whitewash" committee.
Although its work had to be put on hold while ongoing legal matters proceed, it is my hope that the committee will be allowed to continue and complete its work soon.
I would be willing to bet the Plaintiff's DISCOVERY and DEPOSITIONS will complete their work for them
This dude is a lying sack of SH%T. He is politicking to cover his lying AZZ
Anyone who doesnt see this needs a frontal labotomy and a bottle in front of them
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:21 PM
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I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Why was your chief of police MIA, and he also made the statement that everything that the DPD was doing they were doing was with his complete approval? This was in the N&O mayor Bell.
joan foster Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:22 PM
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On March 27 ,Ruth Sheehan wrote the infamous "Selence is Sickening" screed.
"Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know.
We know you know.
Whatever happened in the bathroom at the stripper party gone terribly terribly bad, you know who was involved. Every one of you does.
And one of you needs to come forward and tell the police."
snip
"I don't know what happened in that house, and in that bathroom, over in Durham. Ultimately, that will be a matter for the court system to decide. But who was in that room is something the police need to know. Now.
They shouldn't have to wait for 46 DNA samples to be returned.Every member of the men's lacrosse team knows who was involved, whether it was gang rape or not.
Until the team members come forward with that information, forfeiting games isn't enough.
Shut down the team."
Followed by:
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426472.html
Stand Up, Challenge Teammates on April 8, 2006
This reporting of the non-cooperation continued as nauseum. If my point is missed, I'm sure we can give more links to the constant mantra of SILENCE.
When did Mayor Bell set the record straight? Link please.
Did he inform the N&O and Sheehan that her incendiary column was dead wrong?
Did he do it before she called for Pressler to be fired. Did he?
Where did he correct the impression that so damaged these boys for months?
Where did he , as Mayor, tell his community they were misinformed?
Where? Just give me one link.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:23 PM
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.
Mayor Bell you sound Stupid.
The two Universities? Did they verify Crystal was a Student?
If she was representing the University that Night, why weren't her actions and behavior that night publicly condemned? As were the Players as Reps of the University?
NCCU has not a thing to do with this except they are a Political constituency that must be fed. They wanted their pound of white Flesh.
If the purpose of the Timeline was to make Facts public, why was it hidden for 18 months?
The Mayor appeared with and sat right next to Nifong at NCCU when more fantasies about the case were distributed. The Mayor was complicit in Nifong's media campaign.
Why did the Mayor ask for the Lacrosse season to be canceled?
What other Criminal cases were you involved in Mr. Mayor?
-----
How about my Timeline, Mayor?
April 11th
---------
You sit next to Nifong at NCCU and many unfounded assertions are made. Nifong sullies the Players some more and there's no one there speaking to the OTHER side. It's a Mob with Leaders.
Night of April 11th
------------------
You go on CNN where Nancy Grace is the Host. On National TV, you state the following:
"BELL: No, that`s -- quite the contrary. In fact, if you had been at the forum, you would have seen that that was one of the things that the students spoke very much about. And I can tell you that the chancellor of NCCU, in a meeting that I attended with he, President Brodhead and some other African-American members of this community, spoke very, very emphatic about that, that there`s a victim, we shouldn`t forget that there`s a victim, who`s a young lady. And more important, she`s a mother and she`s a student. So she has not been forgotten in this whole process."
April 12th
-------------
The next morning, Nifong signs the affidavits for the indictments of two Duke Lacrosse Players.
Bell is with Nifong on the 11th and they depart together. Conversations that Bell had with Nifong during this time frame are critical. And Bell was publicly singing the praises of Mike Nifong the entire time.
I think that Bell was moving the prosecution forward and trying to keep his constituents in Durham happy. He now calls that "peace keeping." I guess sacrifices can be Peace Keeping actions, depending on whom is being sacrificed!
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM
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This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
.
A good case can be made that Bell felt indictments meant keeping the peace and keeping his City Safe.
Nifong is serving Bell and giving them want they want in exchange for support from them and their constituents in the upcoming election.
Someone name another Felony case where a Mayor and City Manager are concerned with the Evidence in the case and publicly characterize the Evidence in Media interviews?
It doesn't happen.
Durham has operated for years like they had to answer to no one and they could do as they please. Laws were for other people. This highly unusual set of circumstances was an outgrowth of that attitude.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (kbp @ Oct 8 2007, 08:28 PM)
This liar is a jole. I have most all of what he did and said, have posted all of it numerous times here and that "Response" from Mayor Bell is so full of lies it is not worthy of my time to point them all out. But I will the one lie that shows the entire speech was a lie.
"Not only did I never advocate a rush to judgment in this case, I said many times, publicly and privately, that we should not prejudge any individuals and that in our system of justice, all accused persons are assumed to be innocent until proved otherwise."
Great line from one that pressed Duke for more action and to end the season, in a case the DPD was investigating properly!
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM
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Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM
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.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:48 PM)
QUOTE (Dream Weaver @ Oct 8 2007, 08:40 PM)
Longtabber and Tony, your posts would make perfect talking points in a debate between Stith and Bell. Stith should take your comments as written and take out a full page ad in the HS and N&O to show this man can lie more than a horse can ________(you can fill in the blank at will).
Bell knows that 45% of the Durham population will eat this crap up with a spoon and not even ask for salt and pepper.
Great posts guys!
That would be cool.
I would like to see that lying, racist pandering, criminal bumbling blunder actually ANSWER a DIRECT question in an open forum with no prepared one sided speach to hide behind.
I wonder what it would be like to watch him melt down when caught in his own web of LIES in a public forum.
We can always wish
Perhaps blog hooligans should pool their money and take out an ad. Do you even think that the HS or N&O would publish it? Doubtful!
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:52 PM)
.
I asked him questions on the Radio.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
He wasn't certain he ever said that, in his briefings, he was never told that she had changed her story.
He said, I don't know that she did change her story. I haven't read one motion in the case. I wouldn't know.
The Radio host wanted Bell to come back so he cut off the questions.
.
He Played Dumb - real dumb.
Playing?
Yeah, he was playing dumb- he was a LIAR and he KNOWS he is a liar
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM
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Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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Burness told him that the players initially had cooperated, so Bell claims that he asked for a timeline to see if Burness' claim was correct and whether the DPD's claim was false. He found that the DPD's statements were false. He claims to be worried that the City is about to be torn apart and he expresses no concern that the DA and his police are making false and inflammatory statements about a highly visible case.
Perhaps he saw no other warning signs.
On April 10, the defense released pictures. These pictures appeared to contradict at least some of the allegations. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 11, the DNA test results were released. As we know, these tests cleared the players. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 12, Crimestoppers belatedly amended their news release. These amendments eliminated the inflammatory language included in the initial release. This inflammatory language is not consistent with standard procedures. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Mayor Bell is worried about the City being torn apart and he doesn't realize his own police department is responsible.
On April 14, the tape of the responding officer was released. She was described as "passed out drunk." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 15, the N&O ran a story about the visit to the players' dorm rooms. This visit appeared to violate ethics rules because the DPD knew the players were represented by lawyers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 19, Patrick Baker defended the dorm visit. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks? Perhaps the answer is yes.
On April 20, Seligmann's lawyers made public his alibi evidence. This evidence made it apparent that Seligmann almost certainly was not at the house when the alleged attack had taken place. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 28, it was reported that the accuser had earlier reported being the victim of a gang rape. This earlier accusation was not pursued. This relevation raised questions about the credibility of the accuser. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On April 30, the N&O ran a story that the DA and the DPD would be on trial as well. This article raised serious questions about the DPD investigation. It noted that the identification procedures used to make the identifications violated the DPD's procedures. It notes that the DPD did not search the suspects rooms for two weeks. It notes that the DPD did not search the alleged crime scene for two days. It notes that Jason Bissey was not contacted by police, but called Himan and left a message. It notes that the DPD had made no attempt to get copies of the party pictures from the defense attorneys. It notes that Nifong had turned down attempts by the defense attorneys to provide him evidence. It notes that Nifong had taken control of the investigation. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Perhaps Mayor Bell did not see any of these criticisms as problems.
On May 2, information to Seligmann's alibi was released. This information showed that Seligmann was not at the house at the time that the alleged raped occurred. This information clearly raised questions regarding the accuracy of at least one of the identifications. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 9, a story reported that Duke police indicated that Durham police initially did not take the allegations seriously. These reports noted that the accuser had changed her story many times the night of the alleged attack. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time? Is this when Sgt. Shelton was disciplined?
On May 10, Patrick Baker disputed claims that the DPD did not take the accusation seriously, Baker claimed to have spoken with investigators and claimed that the claim that Crystal had claimed to have been raped by 20 men was false. Baker's statement is false. Did Baker speak for the Mayor when he made these remarks?
On May 11, Moez Elmostafa was arrested on a 2 1/2 year old misdemeanor warrant. He was arrested by two detectives investigating the Duke rape case. The detectives asked if he had anything new to say before they arrested him. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 12, Nifong denied that Elmostafa's arrest was linked to the lacrosse case. Nifong confirmed that Himan and Clayton were the arresting officers. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 16, the defense filed a motion that claimed the the "unusually close supervision of police personnel" by City Manager Patrick Baker was improper and could taint witnesses. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 17, David Evans was arrested. It was disclosed that he had been tested by a former FBI polygraph expert and had passed the polygraph. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 19, it was disclosed that the source of the semen was likely the accuser's boyfriend. There were no matches to any lacrosse players. Did Mayor Bell and the City Council ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 26, the defense attorneys asked for descriptions of the alleged attackers. No descriptions of the attackers were included in the 1,278 pages of discovery provided to the attorneys. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On May 27, it was disclosed that the accuser had failed to identify any of her alleged attackers in a lineup one week after the alleged attack. This article described the March 21 lineup. It also indicated that she identified Evans on April 4 with 90% certainty if he had a mustache. Defense attorneys denied that he had a mustache. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, it was reported that the second dancer initially characterized the accusation as a "crock." In this article, Kim described the accuser as "talking crazy." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 9, defense attorneys released portions of the medical report in a filing. The medical report indicated that the accuser did not have injuries consistent with her accusation of a brutal gang rape. It also provided details of her one-on-one "dates," including a vibrator show. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 13, it was reported that Prof. James Coleman called for Nifong's recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. He criticized harshly the lineup at which the accuser picked the three defendants: "It's so wrong; it had to be done for a reason other than identification." Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 15 and June 16, it was reported that Nifong's public statements on the case were not supported by the information contained in the discovery provided to defense attorneys. These claims were also contained in defense filings with the court. These claims raised questions about the information both Nifong and Addison, among others, had provided to the public. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
On June 24, it was reported that the accuser had changed her story many times in her early conversations with the DPD. She changed the number of attackers, the number of dancers and other critical details. Did Mayor Bell ask questions and demand straight answers at this time?
In July, Nifong told Bell that he remained as confident in the case as he had been earlier.
By that time, Bell was aware that the case had been weakened as a result of the pictures which the defense had released; the negative DNA tests; an accuser who was drunk, had made conflicting claims and had previously claimed rape; strong alibi evidence from one of the defendants; the other dancer had described the accusation as a "crock;" the medical report showed no injuries consistent with the accusation; and had had several one-on-one "dates" in hotel rooms in the days preceding the party. By that time, Bell was aware that the responding officers did not believe the claim; and that the DPD had violated its policies on public statements, attempts to interrogate witnesses without counsel and on identifcations. By this time, he knew that Nifong and Addison had lied in their public statements. Did Mayor Bell ask Nifong questions and demand straight answers at this time?
It is too bad that there were no warning signs.
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:05 PM
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This statement will just be another piece of evidence introduced into the civil trial. I'm sure Bell cleared this statement with Roger Warin of Steptoe before issuing it. Well Roger, welcome to Durham in Wonderland. Get used to it.
sceptical Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:06 PM
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Mayor Bell's statement reminds me of the Baker/Chalmers report-- an ex post facto attempt to explain uncomfortable facts that fools no one who knows anything about the case.
He will receive the same reception as the Baker/Chalmers report-- almost universal dismissal except for the Durham true believers.
Tony Soprano Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:07 PM
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Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
Good old whack-a-mole...never fails to amuse.
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 10:07 PM)
.
Excellent JSwift! And on April 11th when Mayor Bell was on CNN - it was once again said the team was remaining silent - and Mayor Bell didn't say one word to refute that.
.
Sorry, Tony. I didn't have time to do complete research. I used only the N&O.
Walt-in-Durham Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Walt-in-Durham @ Oct 8 2007, 10:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Under Durham's City Manager form of government, the City Council and Mayor are the ultimate oversight body. The Police Department reports to the Mayor and Council through the City Manager. The Mayor is not the head of the executive branch of city government. He is really an at large council member. The mayor and council hire the city manager. Unfortunately, what happens in practice is no one is really accountable. Everyone blames someone else and claims they lack the authority to do do anything.
Walt-in-Durham
In another statement, the Mayor claimed to be closely monitoring the investigation. He missed a couple of warning signs.
Dream Weaver Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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This thread is an unbelievable brain trust for the plaintiffs' attorneys. You guys are carving Bell's lies up into splinters. Bell can fool Durham, but he can't fool some of the blog hooligans. He needs to be publicly humiliated over this stew of deceit he has cooked up today.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM
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The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
Ono Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ono @ Oct 8 2007, 09:14 PM)
The longer this goes on and the more facts that we learn, I cannot help but believe that the majority of "those in charge" in Durham [ except for Shelton, etc. ], belong down in Aruba. Ah, Aruba would more than likely welcome Durham's "look the other way" brand of law enforcement/ faux investigation/ let's crew the truth....hillbillies.
meant to say: "let's screw the truth"....LOL!
DHaze Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:02 PM)
Wow. I can't even begin to parse this dissembling pile of crap. Here is a more easily digestible substitute:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm lying. Please vote for me."
bonk bonk on the head
It seems that the overriding goal of every Durham public employee is plausible deniability. "Nope, wasn't me -- it was somebody else's problem/issue/fault."
Unfortunately for the well paid shirkers, a court is unlikely to buy that argument.
FirstDefender Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Tony Soprano @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
.
It boils down to this, Mayor Bell viewed the Police, the DA, and the Durham Justice system as a Political tool to be used to further his objectives.
Since when does a Mayor have oversight over a Police force?
Since when is a Mayor privy to evidence in a Felony case?
There were no boundaries on what the Mayor saw as opportunities for him to benefit his constituents and tout his record.
If the Mayor didn't have any other conversations with the Detectives on the case, why did he indicate to the Media that the claims that the woman had changed her story were incorrect and that was the first time he had ever heard those. He said I was never told that in any of my briefings on the case and he supported and amplified what City Manager Baker had already contended to the Media - that those claims were incorrect.
The correct thing for a Mayor to do - a pure Politician - would be to say - you'll have to ask the Chief of Police. However, he did not say that. He wanted to have an impact on the case and be an active participant in its furtherance.
.
Yes...and Bell's political ambition needs to be juxtaposed with the fact that an early member of the NAACP in North Carolina was a gentleman named 'Mangum.'
Hmmmm.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 08:34 PM)
You know what really scares me.
Who does this lying Bast@&d think he is fooling?
Even worse- are they really being fooled?
Yes...they are.
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:27 PM
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I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all locals to get out and vote in the municipal primary election tomorrow. Here's a sample ballot:
http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/..._ONLYsample.pdf
Mr X Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM
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I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 08:47 PM)
This is Mayor Bell's response at the work session last Thursday. It was part of the public record
Statement RE: Police Timeline of Events for Council, Incident #06-8310
(snip)
I want to make something quite clear: I requested the timeline in question. I requested it for the sole purpose of answering the question of when the Durham Police Department first had contact with any of the Duke students or lacrosse players as they began their investigation of the case. Rather than trying to hide the facts, as a member of this council has suggested, the purpose of this timeline was to make the facts public.
(snip)
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
(snip)
With that question answered, I simply no longer needed to see the timeline.
(snip)
William V. “Bill” Bell
Mayor, Durham, NC
October 3, 2007
Himan was one of the officers who executed the search warrant. He did not need to construct a timeline detailing all of the DPD's activities in its "investigation" to answer your question. He could have simply answered:
"Mr. Mayor, we executed a search warrant on the house on Buchanan on March 16. The three residents of the house, all captains of the lacrosse team, were cooperative in the search. They agreed to go to the station to give statements and waived the right to call attorneys. We interviewed them, they provided written statements and voluntarily gave DNA samples. They also volunteered to take polygraph tests, but we turned down that offer. Mr. Mayor, do you still need that timeline?"
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
JSwift Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
Clowns Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
LaDukie Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Also, it makes NO sense to me that Bell woudl request the timeline
and then not bother to get a copy of it. The fact that he only recently
has stated that the reason for asking for it was to answer that one
question is suspicious.
I also wonder, can it be confirmed that the timeline that we have seen
is the original (unaltered) timeline that was originally produced for
Bell (even though he didn't really care about seeing it)?
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Baldo Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM
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Thanks to maqqief pinned quotes. You did a great job!
Mayor Bell in his own words. This are not all of them. See the pinned quotes for full context
I don't see any attempt to set the record straight and say there was no wall of silence. He knew Addison had said that. He said it on March 27th. He knew that was one of the major reasons why people were upset. Yet he knew it was false at least by April 6th and I suspect much earlier.. He talked with Himan on March 29th. He saw the actual time-line by April 6th.
Nope don't say anything that might upset the false information being spread by the police.
March 27th
Durham Mayor Bill Bell, who spoke with Brodhead by phone Sunday, said in a telephone interview Monday that he realizes that officials are dealing with allegations and that police have not completed their investigation. Still, he said, "I'm concerned about the code of silence that continues to prevail."
March 28th
I think the fact that they canceled games showed good wisdom," Bell told WRAL Tuesday. "I suggested that I think they should cancel the rest of the games for the rest of the season. I think that, in itself, would make a statement -- not only to the persons involved, but to the community."
March 30th
Bell expressed concern at the racial angle of the incident.
"Durham prides it self on its diversity," Bell said. "So, when you see something like that come up, it obviously concerns you."
March 30th
Bell said participants in the 11/2-hour session agreed that while they need to let the legal process unfold, there are "other moral issues," including racial issues, that have to be addressed in some way.
The moral issues arise because "no one denies there was a party of some type of drinking and that there may even have been some racial slurs," Bell said. "With the different demonstrations that have been held, you're hearing some other things that students, particularly African-American students, at Duke may have felt of a racial nature. We need to understand what that means of a broader nature for the community."
April 1
Bell said he's satisfied with the Police Department's work so far in investigating claims by a 27-year-old N.C. Central University student that three men dragged her into a bathroom at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., then beat, strangled, raped and sodomized her.
April 10th
KING: Are you confident, mayor, of the prosecution handling this fairly?
BELL: I'm not an attorney. I'm an engineer and the mayor of the city. From what I've seen I think it has been handled fairly thorough. What we've asked is that we understand these allegations. There's a process. We asked our police to be very thorough. I'm sure they're doing that. And now we'll have to wait and see what the D.A. has to say about this.
April 11th
GRACE: Mayor, are you concerned that people are rushing to a judgment in this case?
BELL: Well, let me say this, you -- people are going to form opinions and that`s just the nature of people in any particular case. What I`m proud of is this community has reacted in a very normal way, as far as I`m concerned. They`ve raised questions. We`ve given them forums to allow them to raise questions. The PTF does an excellent job of that. You saw a forum at NCCU, the city council and county commission. People have an opportunity to speak. That`s what is doing. I`m not sure that people have rushed to judgment, so to speak. We are trying to avert that. Obviously people have formed opinions and that`s to be expected.
July 12th
But he stayed in that office until Harden took a judgeship and Nifong inherited his post through an appointment from the governor's office. "I didn't pick the crime. I didn't pick the time ... I would rather do the right thing than win this election," Nifong has said publicly of the Duke case.
"Do I believe him when he says that?" asked Bell. "I really do.
Nov 9th
Nifong polled well among black Durham residents because residents respect him as a prosecutor and they favor his handling of the case, Durham Mayor Bill Bell said in an interview. "By and large, people want it to be decided in court."
April 12th
After AG Cooper’s decision
"By in large, we've moved forward," he said.
kbp Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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This guy tells us the purpose of his timeline is to be open with the public and that he preached to all to prevent any prejudicial results. The same guy that had succeeded evidently in his efforts to have Duke prejudge the entire team and later worked to avoid a criminal investigation.
I was amazed when he stated he felt there was no need for a change of venue. After that it was obvious he was not the ignorant politician just looking in on the case from outside.
I see that "response" as a purely political move to a captive audience, the other council members he needs support from to win the coming election. The council members that are close to the PAC's with the votes. Nobody will challenge his lies except Stith.
maggief Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (~J~ is in Wonderland @ Oct 8 2007, 06:47 PM)
I want to be very clear about this: at no time did I advise the police as to how they should conduct their investigation of the lacrosse case. We never discussed line-ups or photo identifications of any police tactic. It is simply WRONG to imply otherwise.
Police document details lacrosse events
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
October 2, 2007 11:46 pm
Bell said he didn't recall any discussion of IDs. But he did remember that someone mentioned the supposed assailants may have received "scratches or something" and that "it was important to get the persons who allegedly did this" before those wounds could fully heal.
/
Which is it, NEVER or DIDN'T RECALL ?!?
ThinkFirstTypeLater Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
Trigger Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggief @ Oct 8 2007, 09:45 PM)
Oh my, where to start?!?
QUOTE
At a regularly scheduled meeting with the city manager held on March 29, 2006, in my office, we were joined by then-Police Chief Chalmers and Officer Himan. I repeated what I had been told by Mr. Burness and asked that a timeline be constructed outlining the activities of the Police Department with respect to their contact with Duke students, presumably members of the lacrosse team, from the time the Police Department was first called into the case. I was interested in the timeline of the Police Department’s actions from the March 13, 2006 date up to the time of my request on March 29, 2006. Answering that question was the sole purpose of the timeline.
If on 3/29 Bell instructed Chalmers and Himan to prepare a timeline, why did it take until 4/04 to pull Himan out of training to start work on it?
I wonder how Bell's March 29th meeting dovetails with this meeting:
"The media crush also focused high-level administrative attention on the case. The two detectives, [Gottlieb and Himan,] met on March 29 with Baker, Chalmers, Hodge, a police attorney and two Duke University officials -- Associate Vice President for Campus Safety and Security Aaron Graves and Police Director Robert Dean.
Baker on Tuesday said the March 29 meeting allowed him to hear from Gottlieb and Himan first-hand, to make sure they and Duke police were working smoothly together and to make sure the detectives had the resources they needed to finish the investigation. He said the issue of identifications didn't come up." http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/20...-questions.html
longtabber Posted: Oct 8 2007, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE (longtabber @ Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 09:47 PM)
QUOTE (JSwift @ Oct 8 2007, 09:42 PM)
QUOTE (ThinkFirstTypeLater @ Oct 8 2007, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr X @ Oct 8 2007, 09:30 PM)
I actually hope that Vikky gets in
lots of material for us if she does
If you vote for that POS, I will personally hunt you down and glare at you, menacingly...very menacingly.
It would be entertaining.
Maybe, if you find tabasco colonics "entertaining."
HMMMMMMMMMM
tell me more
Unfortunately, the Tabasco corporation has sworn me to silence.
That darn "red wall of silence"
Foiled again
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