Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Joan Foster comes out swinging!

This morning the News-Observer published a column by staff writer Barry Saunders.

They seek payback, not pay

"Only a heartless misanthrope would argue against giving something to the dear, sweet former Duke lacrosse players who have been through such an ordeal.


Why, I think one of them even spent an hour in custody -- not in jail, but waiting for a magistrate to finish his lunch so daddykins could post bail.

The players are asking for $30 million. That seems a bit high for the inconvenience they suffered, but they certainly deserve some recompense. After all, the strippers they hired didn't even finish their hootchy-kootchy dance.

How about a compromise figure? Instead of $30 million, how about a fish sandwich, a Yoo-hoo and a one-way Greyhound bus ticket? ..."NewsObserver



This caused a fury in Joan and she quickly responded to him.

Dear Barry,

Take a deep breath, squeeze your eyebrows together, and try to think a big, big, DEEP thought for once.

Okay, try again and keep on trying until it comes to you. Once you've done it a few times, it's not hard.

Barry, it's not about the thirty million.

Duh.It's the Discovery, Stupid.

It's the discovery that will rip the dirty little lid.... off the dirty little Old Boys Network.... in the dirty little town of Durham. Watching the synchronization of cops, judges, and Durham officials, as they constructed the dirty little frame against Collin, Reade and Dave last year, has left many of us breathless with rage. But this isn't about rage or revenge or raking every last bit of revenue out of the city coffers .

No, Barry, this is about RECONSTRUCTION. The reconstruction of a judicial system, a police department, and a city government that currently reeks of cronyism and corruption.

Did you see Judge Ron ("He's A-OK") Stephens blubbering on the stand last week over his bestest buddy Mike Nifong's problems? Or Judge Marcia ("It depends") Morey hedging under oath and then hovering over Nifong like a hen with a chick? With the intensity of this incestuous local system proudly on public display, Barry, are you really convinced all defendants are assured a fair trial in Durham? I mean, Barry, the State is the richest Daddy of them all. You were content in your columns to let these three sons of privilege sweat it out...but what about the sons of poverty, the sons of single Moms and the sons of "Barely Subsisting"? How are they to handle the grifters with a grip on the power in your town?

This is about THEM. Not Collin, Reade, and Dave. This is FOR them. And for all who have been victimized before and will surely be victimized in the future. You and many Durhamites have been content to subject your sons and your neighbors' sons to the status quo. Mark ("Magic Notes") Gottlieb is still prowling his beat. Patrick ("Only One Story") Baker is still on the payroll after Hoaxgate, having also survived Leadgate and Dumpgate. Not one other Durhamite filed a similar Nifong removal motion, following Beth Brewer's courageous lead.

Maybe you were out replacing the feather in your fedora, Barry, but I missed YOUR meaningful contribution. There has been no accountability, no self-correction, no cleaning of the cesspool too many of you locals contentedly swim in. Why was it you never stood up to the sleaze, Barry? Was it inbred apathy, fear of reprisal, or, as Mike Nifong saw it, a golden opportunity for self-advancement? In any event, you just let it be.

But that's about to change. Sorry you didn't have the grit or the gumption to do it on your own.

No, Barry, this is a line in the sand for all those folks... poor, black, brown, and otherwise... who couldn't stand up to the bullies in blue; the wolves in white shirt and council pin; the back-slapping boys in black robes and their favorite, duly-elected district attorney, Mike Nifong. This is FOR THEM. This is to put a stake in the heart of the shameful, sickening abuse of power that dominates the smug and the powerful in your town.

Let them be deposed.

Better yet...let them be EXPOSED.Fully, completely, and finally exposed.

This is better than the Feds, Barry.

The Godfather might tell you...Durham has been made an offer it cannot accept.

It's about the Discovery. Any settlement is secondary. Since you locals never had the courage to clean house before... consider the tax hike to come...well, just like you hired a BIG, BIG Cleaning Team to come to town, disinfect and remove the Trash. Durham deserves better than this. And, Barry, when you won't do it yourself...sometimes you just have to PAY to get it done.

Durham can never compensate Collin, Reade, and Dave for the stain on their names or being shackled with a lifetime of abuse from the "Something Happened" crowd. But making an example of Durham's complicity in the wrongdoing in this case may help eradicate the cronyism, corruption, and contempt for our justice system that affects others unable to help themselves. It takes courage to take that on. These three families have it. Your sarcasm, insensitivity and lifetime of inaction shows you lack the conviction or the CHARACTER to even grasp the concept.

Keep swanning around the cesspool in your snazzy hat, Barry. Whether you approve or not, somebody's about to see it drained.

Joan Foster

79 comments:

Anonymous said...

I say it's a first round knockout! Joan your the Champ!

Anonymous said...

yeesh! your prose is as bad as your poetry Joan Foster! The fact of the matter is that the only sleasy people involved in this are the people responsible for this whole mess and that is the Duke Lax team who wanted to circumvent the law and have underage teammates have a degrading strip club experience and who booked a lesbian sex show and then racially abused the black women who showed up and then left the scene and refused to answer the door when law enforcement came that night. Oh and I forgot about the all day drinking. Their families and the people here on liestoppers think they are heroes but heroes don't degrade people and they face up to their responsibilities. Heroes don't use the N word and they do not have porn in their computers nor do they have questionable disciplanary records at their school. Stop trying to pretend you care about poor defendants because you do not. You are white racists and you are angry that Nifong tried to investigate this black woman's complaint, period. And you want him and Durham to pay for trying to investigate the conduct of the little darlings. I guess Nifong forgot a black woman has no rights that a white man is bound to respect. The local people know about the poor conduct of Duke students through the years and know what assholes these people act like and that is why the locals have stuck to "something happened" despite what Cooper has said. Whatever sympathy the players got around here is diminishing with their greedy and outrageous demands for money. Bringing the OJ lawyer down here only compounded this as a poor pr move. The little angels have just made a big tactical error. The people down here are gearing up for a fight and they may lose but the Duke 3 are not going to get an easy time of it as they will have to appear where their lawyers have been afraid to go this whole time: OPEN COURT with a jury! And discovery works both ways. I work at the court house and there is a reason their lawyers were scared to face a jury and it is not because the case was strong( it wasn't) but their lawyers were trying to protect the reputation of the little angels and did not want some things to come out in open court.

Anonymous said...

To the poster above,

Re: Your statement" You are white racists and you are angry that Nifong tried to investigate this black woman's complaint, period...."

I guess it is safe to say you are not.....white.

Anonymous said...

Vicky got a computer!

Anonymous said...

Yes, discovery cuts both ways.

I think Durham has a lot more to lose than the three players. We have already heard the shocking revelations of beer drinking and porcine male behavior. Now, let's hear about Durham and DPD.

Anonymous said...

"You are white racists and you are angry that Nifong tried to investigate this black woman's complaint, period."

Nifong did not try to "investigate" this woman's complaint.

He tried to violate three person's Civil Rights and charge the three with violent crimes that Nifong knew in advance were not true. Be they white, black or whatever, that is highly illegal.

In so doing, he also trampled all over these person's lives and family lives for 15 months. Fortunes were spent to keep the persons who were wrongfully prosecuted free. Families' health was wrecked. A nationally ranked university's reputation, hard fought, was trashed.

The woman who placed the charges was not helped by those who used her for their own ends (an election), but enabled. She had had sex with multiple men that day, and those men were not found. They were not even searched for. These were not the men at the party. Did anyone care about the truth, Barry? Do you care about the truth, Barry? She needed help and did not get it. More to the point, her children needed help, and they did not get it. Durham was too busy chasing after people who did not do a crime. It is not a crime to drink all day. It is also not a crime to have a party when it is spring break from school. That does not indicate that one is living off one's dad's money. Their mistake was in hiring a stripper. I am sure they will never do this again.

It is a serious violation of the law, however, to trample on one's Civil Rights. It matters not what race they are. Durham cannot continue to violate the law for anyone of any race. Gottlieb cannot continue to violate the civil rights of Duke students and go into their houses and throw them on the floor, handcuff them and violate their civil rights. This is frightening. It is like the movie Deliverance in Durham. A lawless place run by immoral people. It is corrupt.

It is very small minded and small brained of Barry Saunders to not to see that this matters not only for the three former defendants, but for the rest of the town of Durham.

Barry Saunders reflects poorly on an already sad, pathetic and ultimately not fixable little city. It must be abandoned by anyone concerned for their own Civil Rights of any color. If Barry Saunders is any indication of who lives there, it is time to never again go to Durham, NC. Duke University will no longer soar in the national rankings because who in their right minds would go to a research university set in such a horrendous and dangerous backwater.

Anonymous said...

(Sigh) try as I might, I can't get my head around the fact that there are still "people of color" in Durm who don't understand what happened. Our dusky brothers and sisters are so trained to sit up and bark at their masters' signal, they are downright pavlovian. "It's all whitey's fault!! Wah!!" I hope I didn't offend anyone...

Anonymous said...

of course you did, whitey.

and in case you and the Duke 3 forgot, slavery time is over( this is a reference to the Laxers odious and racist grandfather and cotton shirt comment which was a verbal attempt to degrade the strippers to slavery level that night)and we don't have to put up with masters and our women being mistreated wihtout repercussion any more!! The only civil rights violated that night were that of the women, who were called N and N b--ch, etc. And I want to correct a lie you people keep telling. SHE DID NOT SLEEP WITH MULTIPLE MEN THAT DAY, YOU IDIOT. The SBI did not find any DNA which is why the samples were sent to Dr. Meehan's lab for more expert analysis. The fact that the samples were NOT detected in the basic test at the SBI indicated these were old and degraded samples that needed amplification,which Dr. Meehan had to do to detect the fractions on the underwear, dummy.

Anonymous said...

3:36 sad. Even sadder if you're from Durham and work in the court house. Could you leave your name -- the taxes that Durham residents will have to pay because of their corrupt injustice system should be assessed to just those that deserve it...

Anonymous said...

Nice Joan... hope you sent it along to Barry.

Anonymous said...

Barry Saunders and anon 3:36 just don't get it. Perhaps Barry was being facetious, I hope so, but anon 3:36 was just being stupid. Joan's article pointed out the truth of the situation. Durham, Duke, and The DPD are corrupt and ferretting out the corruption will help everyone, not just the whites. Since black convictions run much higher that white convictions, it should naturally help blacks more.

More importantly, perhaps this event will help open minded people see that a corrupt system is not a black and white issue.

So long as people like Barry, and anon 3:36 see everything through racial glasses, we as a society have no hope. Martin Luther King Jr. would be outraged over their behavior.

It's not about race stupid!!!

Anonymous said...

" And I want to correct a lie you people keep telling. SHE DID NOT SLEEP WITH MULTIPLE MEN THAT DAY, YOU IDIOT. "

She didn't have sex either, forced or otherwise.

So, defend her now.

QuadDog said...

Joan,

You gave Barry the bitch slap he needed. In the past year or so you have become one of my heros. Everytime you write something I say to myself, "I wish I said that!".

QD

Anonymous said...

"( this is a reference to the Laxers odious and racist grandfather and cotton shirt comment which was a verbal attempt to degrade the strippers to slavery level that night)"

It wasn't a racist comment.

It was the repeating a joke made previously by a black commedian and was said in response to a racist attack by one of the women. The ONLY racist comment made that night.

And even if you think the joke was a racist comment, it wasn't made by one of the Duke 3.

Anonymous said...

Freedom from being offended isn't a civil right anon 7:47

Anonymous said...

Ha! Barry gave all of you all the bitch slap and that is why you are emailing him and calling him right now. If you call his number he has a message saying "you are probably calling to curse me out over the column" which is typical of the fascist tactics on Liestoppers, which aims to silence any dissent. Well guess what.If there is no settlement, the court case will have to be held in NC and everyone is agog at the absurd amount of money these guys are asking for so even if it is not held in Durham, you are going to get some people on the jury who are dubious about the amount of the claim. This is a disaster in terms of public opinion. The N and O is even re-attacking: they called the behavior of the Lax team at the party reprehenisible today in their editorial and they have been very pro Lax lately. Greed has damaged their profile here in NC.

Also, all you people talking about MLK should know that he was called N and everything else when he did his integration marches and he would not give the Lax team, a group of bullies who outnumbered women 2 to 41 and who called women N---- and b---h and offered to sodomise them with a broomstick and told them to thank their grandfathers for their nice cotton shirts(or the people who defend them and think what they did is cool) the time of day. he hated hate speech and fought all his life againist bulls---t like what they did that night so quit quoting MLK; it is like the Devil quoting scripture!

I have finished for now. You all can resume your KKK meeting.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

" of course you did, whitey."

Your true colors are showing.

Anonymous said...

Also, you are a liar in that a black comedian never said it; no one ever found the Chris Rock tape that supposedly came from and that is because he never said it and you are a a truly idiotic lunatic if you do not think that is a racist comment when made to 2 women of African descent! First, it says tell your grandfather--this implies a person of an older generation--slavery and Jim crow sharecropping were in the past generations. Second, it says( sarcastically) to thank the grandparent for their nice cotton shirt--Why does the shirt have to be cotton--because slaves and the sharecroppers were the ones forced to pick the cotton, idiot! It is a slavery and Jim Crow reference for sure. This comment was a racist and degrading as it gets! And you have the nerve to invoke MLK as if he would care about people who would say that! He fought that type of mentality all of his life and was ultimately killed by people with those type of beliefs.

Anonymous said...

No, 8:15, the true colors were shown at 7:31, when he wrote about dusky people and barking for their masters to refer to the black people in durham and said something about blaming whitey and then wrote something about hoping not to offend when of course he intended to offend so I just responded in kind. Please notice that you said nothing whatsoever to 7:31 who was out of line and using slavery references( blacks having masters, dusky). I guess that is ok but if I use the word whitey in reponse to his bullsh--t that is not. Please, you all are such hypocrites! And please stop pretending you give a damn about the black conviction rate in Durham because you do not. You even discuss the Jena 6 on this board and act like the whites were justified in that case to have a whites only tree and to hang nooses and beat up black students and pull guns on them and not be charged but if someone is beat up and kicked by a sneaker and goes to a party later that night,that is attempted murder! You people are ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

You want it both ways? Just responding? Akin to responding to "little dick white boy?"

A slur is a slur, regardless who throws it.

Anonymous said...

Don't think we Catholics didn't pick up on Barry's "anti-catholic" slur..take your "fish sandwich" etc.

N&O will allow that kind of outrageous slime toward the faith of the three young men...because in their PC culture, any anti-religios comments are accepted, even encouraged.

Bigots!

TruthHurts001 said...

LOL I love it when the black racists show up and start spewing their anti-white hatred.

Blame whitey, blame whitey, it's all whitey's fault.

Just like a tape recorder, same old song and dance.

TruthHurts001 said...

Consider the black outrage over the Duke NON-RAPE, then compare it to the absolute silence of the black community when 10 black teens raped a black woman and her son in Florida.

If there's no whitey to blame, then apparently it's not important.

Anonymous said...

It all proves the point that Durham is a racist city as dirty as their poster girl Crystal's underwear.

Anonymous said...

Bottom line is Durham has no integrity, class, morals or brains. The Duke 3 and their families does.....more than most. They also have temendous courage to withstand all the stress and pressure they have endured the past 16 months. It took guts to stand back and wait for justice while their children where smeared on national televison. It took faith to know the truth would prevail and justice would ultimately be served. So to those is Durham who think the Duke 3 don't have a right to compensation....your children and grandchildren will be thinking of them as heros for forcing the change in your corrupt legal system. It may be your child next who is victimized and falsely accused and it may be the new laws set in place due to the demands of the Duke 3 and their families that saves your child from false prosecution. The times of "Gone With the Wind" are over...slavery is in the past. So stop blaming Whitey for your problems, and act like human beings instead of using your color to make excuses for your behavior. It doesn't cut it anymore. Affirmative action is over. The black community is the the one who puts the chains of slavery on themselves nowadays by bringing their blackness into everyhting. Black parades, black tv., black awards, black magazines, black this and black that and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson making everything a racial divide. You are the ones who cripple yourselfs and blame white people. Get over yourselves. Pay the price for your ignorance, and pathetic self absorbtion.

Anonymous said...

Bravo.

Well said, Joan.

Anonymous said...

"Heroes ... do not have porn in their computers"

... porn in their computers?

When did porn in anyone's computer ever play any sort of role in this case?

Methinks that someone has serious issues, and insufficient self-control to keep them from twisting their perception of this case.

Anonymous said...

"there is a reason their lawyers were scared to face a jury and it is not because the case was strong( it wasn't) but their lawyers were trying to protect the reputation of the little angels and did not want some things to come out in open court."

So basically, you're saying that there are things that you wanted to come out in open court, not because they had any actual relevance to the case, but so they would prejudice the trial against the defendants. And you say you work in the court house? On the janitorial staff, one hopes.

Anonymous said...

To all the black racists who have been venting on this thread today: I'm over it. I brought my two daughters up to respect everyone, regardless of color, creed, etc, following the words of the later Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I have seen and heard enough lately to know that King's words don't mean diddly-squat to today's race pimps who are so bloody anxious to blame whitey every time things don't go the way they want. I can't, in good conscience, accept any person of color at face value any more because so many of them are self-declared racists who hate whitey more than they respect themselves. Until you racists give up your constant whining, don't bother asking me to give a damn. And I hope the law suits succeed in bankrupting your crumby little town.

jim2 said...

The pictures of the people who showed up to support Nifong as he entered and then left jail, along with the slogans and signs they held, demostrate that the lawsuits should go forward.

Much of Durham seems still in denial. Make them admit in settlement or defend in federal court.

I send something similar to Joan Foster's piece to Barry Saunders yesterday, as I posted on D-i-W:

++++++++++++++++++++
I read your column today and I think you may have missed a central aspect to the threatened lawsuit.

First of all, your column pretty much admits Durham's guilt and consequential legal vulnerability.

The key element that you seem to have missed is that the 3 - through their lawyers - have offered Durham decision-makers a choice.

The choice is for Durham to endure the public scrutiny (and risks) that a public trial and its associated discovery processes would entail, or to pay out such a large sum that the results would be sufficiently painful that voters might demand accountability.

The risks that I noted parenthetically above include greater than $30M awards, criminal sanctions, and mandated federal remedies and/or oversight. Nifong's criminal guilty verdict does not bode well for Durham's trial prospects.

Even your paper and you personally might not be without risk in such legal proceedings.

In any case, the 3 - through their lawyers - have offered Durham a choice: $30M now, or face the public exposure of all the facts that the proper and robust use of US legal processes will entail. If Durham has nothing to hide, then Durham has nothing at risk. After all, it's not like Durham might be put in jail for 30 years for something they did not do.

TruthHurts001 said...

Well stated, Jim. Bravo.

Anonymous said...

The Choirboys and Heroes routine is getting old. If due process is only allowed for perfect people then what are the procedures for the rest of us.

The lacrosse players handled themselves with class and while not perfect, (they drank and hired strippers) they behaved better then those who job it is to see that justice and fair play prevailed.

Anonymous said...

Your best work!Thank you, Joan Foster.

Your friend,
J

Anonymous said...

Seems to me that if the Duke 3 win this suit, regardless if it goes to court or settles out of court, the worry of many anti-lacrosse people in Durham is that they wont be able to get their graft anymore. AND, they will have to pay higher taxes to get less graft. Oh my, now that is punishment. Just my opinon, but no who lives in durham cares about anyone in Durham. If they did, things would be looking a lot different than they do now. Durham has been corrupt for a long time and lots of people make money being corrupt.

Now send me my payment or someone will get Stephens after ya'll.

Anonymous said...

Dear Rip Van Barry,

Did you just wake up from a very long nap? Don't you realize what happened in Durham these last 18 months? Are you oblivious to the corruption and complicity conclusively revealed in the Durham police department, the district attorney's office and perhaps most shamefully, the judiciary?

Who do you think the victims will be next time if this rat's nest is not cleaned out? My guess is it won't be Duke students, it will be Durham citizens without the means to fight back. How many of them have been falsely convicted by this evil cabal in the past? Is anyone going to look into that?

If it takes a 30 million dollar settlement to wake up the community, so be it. Apparently, nothing else so far has had any affect on you or Durham city officials.

Andy Ash
San Diego
(e-mail sent to Barry Saunders)

Anonymous said...

We live in a land that offers tremendous opportunity to those who work hard and persevere. Refugees come here with barely a shirt on their back and within a couple of years they own a dry cleaning store or a nail salon and their children are enrolling in college. As long as the self-pity and blame whitey attitude prevails nothing will change. People are getting fed up.

Anonymous said...

This is a powerful statement of brutal truth about the Durham justice system, and should be widely distributed in that county. Unfortunately, the NandO rejects letters from outside their circulation area (a policy common to all McClatchy papers). It's too bad. Sometimes, the rot can only be seen from a distance.

duke09parent said...

The troll sounds like a resident of the Bat Cave. I don't judge the whole of Durham by the rantings of such people.

Joan, I love your essays. Are you writing professionally anywhere? Has anyone gathered your essays on this case in one place?

Anonymous said...

We are not "whining" we are speaking up for our rights and letting you racist m-----f----s know that we are not taking your racist white supremacy-whites-are-the only-people-whose-opinions count bulls---t any more. And for your information, the blacks in Durham are better off than blacks most places as they have their own banks(had two in fact until they recently merged), their own insurance companies,their own colleges, funeral homes and lots of middle class and college educated blacks and other black businesses. Mind you most of these institutions were founded during white created segregation which existed long after slavery; in fact, segregation lasted here into the late 1960's. Durham had a segregated school system until the mid 1990's. The black man did not create a segregated and unequal system, the white man did so get over yourselves with this "take responsibility for your own problems" bs when most of the problems that still exist were caused by the white created unfair system of economic and social disenfranchisement. Black people first voted in Durham after 1964! That was 40 years ago and you cannot erase the systemic effects of 400 years of slavery, lynching(real lynching where they castrate you and have a barbecue and take a picture of it for a nice postcard not an imaginary one like you claim the players suffered. Hell, the little angels even went skiing during their "lynching". Please give me a break!)and Jim crow and peonage just because white people are tired of hearing about it. We will stop talking about it when you stop your racism but that day will never come so get used to the "whining".

Watcher said...

2:41 Racism is ugly in any color. Durham today is a racist cesspool and the Duke Lacrosse frame showed us only the surface of the corruption. The discovery process will scourge and humiliate the small-minded racists who now wield their petty powers in the same Jim Crow fashion in Durham today. Only the colors are reversed. They are screaming now because they FEAR the revelations.

It's not about the money. The boys HAVE money. As Joan says it';s about exposing the rot and the racism and removing the power from the thugs who possess it now.

Who cares what compensation a jury does or does not give? Durham will be exposed.

Anonymous said...

You don't care about rot and racism, you just want to punish the people in Durham who you all feel are "uppity N---s" because they have not deified the Lax team and think that racial slurs are not cool! That's what this amounts to. And even more absurd, you people are now trying to pretend that the fish sandwich was a Catholic slur. Please. In NC, Yoohoos and fish sandwiches are part of African American culture; Yoohoos are mostly even sold on the black side of town and at ball games for the black schools, they even sell fish sandwiches in the concession areas. It is not a Catholic reference( truth to tell there are not a lot of Catholics down here) but then why do I expect you all to know anything about the culture down here? You obviously do not have a clue.

Anonymous said...

Why should we believe YOU. You are covering for Saunders anti-Catholic slur. Everyone knows he deliberately disrespected the faith of those three young men.

So sensitive to language anyone else uses, but it only goes one way. Real hypocrisy.

Anonymous said...

Since 90% of people here in Durham( and Raleigh and the rest of the Triangle all the way to the coast) eat fish on Fridays and many other days of the week here and are not Catholic, this is a ludicrous charge and I hope one of you makes the mistake of writing that the fish sandwich is a slur in the N and O or the Durham Herald and you will see yourself become the laughingstock you so richly deserve. Nice try in trying to equate "fish sandwich" with the N word but it will not work. It just makes you people look more like hypocrital asses than ever before.

duke09parent said...

This troll is the same one who popped up last year and predicted that Nifong would be reelected (got one right), that the DNA would prove there was a rape, that there would be a trial of the lax players, that Nifong would be vindicated by the bar. Repeated uses of "you people", "get a clue", "get over yourselves" are examples of her style. Mr.
Saunders' essay proves there are folks like that in Durham, as everywhere. There are redneck racists in America, too. Would that we could ship them all to Guam.

Anonymous said...

I saw what you wrote on the thread about this on the forum, Joan Foster and you are a liar( as ususal). You claimed I was posting over and over and implied all the 43 posts are from me. I only posted 8 of the posts on this thread( and sveral hours seperated one group of posts from another); the rest of the 43 were posted by your fellow white racists.

Anonymous said...

Is that Justice58? Sure sounds like her rhetoric.

lrbinfrisco said...

Great response Joan to the racist Saunders.

And to the black racist troll who keeps spewing his racist propaganda in this thread, you really should get a life outside of blaming whitey for everything.

Anonymous said...

Duke99: So what do you have against Guam?

Anonymous said...

Looking over this thread, I came to a conclusion: the "troll" who is writing all the racist remarks couldn't possibly be Black; he/she must be a white racist trying to stir up trouble. I mean, I've worked with many Black folks, and I've never found one THAT stupid. Go away KKK!!!

Anonymous said...

Here is my email to Saunders. Not as good as Joan's, but I wanted to share:

If someone would have taken my kid and threatened him or her with
basically death in prison for something he or she didn't do, I would go after that SOB with every ounce of my being. I would take NO quarter.
I would show absolutely no mercy to the evildoer or those who enabled him. That is what the Duke lacrosse parents are doing by hiring top lawyers and threatening a suit against Durham -- and it is justified.
I'm sure your politicians will hide behind a "those greedy Duke boys" slogan as they run for office. But if they had allowed what happened to the lacrosse kids to be done to MY kid, they would be running from ME!
cmf

Anonymous said...

You all are the racists, I just am exposing your white racism and belief in white supremacy and you cannot take it! YOU are the KKK members not me. The black people that you work with think the same things but they keep it to themselves as they want to keep working there and do not want arguments at work. I don't work with you, I am on a blog and can tell you what I and a lot of other black people think about these "heroes". Your inability to understand what black people felt about the racial slurs, the animosity stirred up by the proposed change of venue,the denigration of the stripper and of the Durham black community as a whole was what caused so many of you to get an unpleasant surprise election day when Nifong was re-elected. Many of you could not beleive it and there were threads on every messageboard talking about it. What you do not want to face is the fact that many people in the Durham black community perceived the players' actions and the words of their supporters to be racist and white supremacist and that is why they supported Nifong and why they still beleive to "something happened" and why they are spoiling for a fight on these issues. I don't have to stir up racial trouble; it was already stirred up that night when the report came out that the Lax team called the girls N-----r b----s and said to thank their grandfather for a nice cotton shirt. The racial animosity started then and still smoulders. Deal with it.

Anonymous said...

I have left this thread up for all to see. It speaks for itself.

Baldo

Anonymous said...

Did y'all see that? The troll daid "denigration!" Remember what happened to that dude in the Washington DC Mayor's office when he said somebody was "niggardly?" I guess this just proves, our troll is really a honkey!!

Anonymous said...

Our anonymous idiot wrote:

"Durham had a segregated school system until the mid 1990's."

No, it was split between the city and county. The city happened to house more African Americans than the county. But, thanks for the comment. It makes it pretty clear that you must be either Jackie Wagstaff or Lavonia Allison. Keep the hate coming, it's all going on your permanent record.

-TFTL

locomotive Breath said...

"They seek payback, not pay"

And the problem with that is what, exactly?

Anonymous said...

No matter how many time you repeat it, it will never be true. The lax team did not holler racial slurs at the strippers. One (got that?) ONE team member responded to a slur (by one of the strippers) with a slur of his own. Was it wrong -- yes, for both of them. Is it right to blame 46 other people for this ONE person's acts? Is it right to blame all strippers for the other ONE person's acts?

Thank you Joan for everything you've done in this case. I've treasured your words -- always on spot and on time.

I'm continually amazed and saddened at the insistence of some to inject race into this case. There was a complete failure of the justice system -- our justice system -- in this case. Failures (worse really) on the part of police officers, the DA's office to at least one judge. This was an out and out attempt to railroad 3 innocent young men.

Some refuse to see that we (all) could have siezed the opportunity to make life (justice) better for all races. But no, it's a fight 'only for your own' mentality... and if you don't agree with the other side -- you're racist.

Those posting here have obviously been following the case closely -- they continue to turn their back on the truth, misstate the facts (that they know) because this case doesn't fit their agenda. Their agenda ... when they call for justice in other cases, in cases of malicious prosecution or prosecutorial misconduct -- its not really about correcting a bad system -- its about protecting their own and only their own. It's only bad and only demands attention when it's done to one of their own...

I raised my children not to judge based on race, religion, sexual preference, etc. Have I done them a disservice - will they forever be judged based on their color, class, religion? Should I have taught them of how others judge them instead? I never knew -- but I do now.

Thanks again Joan.

Anonymous said...

$30M ????

Hell no, don't settle Durham -- don't pay those rich white boys one red cent. Fight this in court, please!

Expose all the lies, force the city to clean up it's act.

Yes, please, take this to court!

In the end, those rich white boys win either way -- they don't need or care about the money -- they just want what Durham should have done themselves -- to rid the justice system of of the other rogues.

While I'm at it -- to those that think Mike Nifong has been punished enough. Would you have been satified with Bernie Ebbers or Kenneth Lay (MCI/Enron fraud cases that cost some stockholders their life's savings) having just lost their job -- or should they have been tried for the fraud they committed? Why should Nifong be held to lower standards. Yes, he's lost his job but, has he been tried/convicted/punished for the frauds he committed? Not yet.

Anonymous said...

5:23 PM

Please . . . .

Anonymous said...

2:41 PM

Please . . . try not to be so ignorant of others as you are ignorant of yourself.

TruthHurts001 said...

Incapable of forming an original thought...just like a tape recorded auto-response...

"Blame whitey, blame whitey, blame whitey, you're all racists"

Same old song and dance.

Anonymous said...

Joan: once again, you astound us with your wit and wisdom.

Thanks!

DMcG
NYC

Anonymous said...

5:23, the animosity of hateful, simple-minded people such as yourself was the one of the things that caused the defense to file the change of venue motion

Anonymous said...

What you do not want to face is the fact that many people in the Durham black community perceived the players' actions and the words of their supporters to be racist and white supremacist and that is why they supported Nifong and why they still beleive to "something happened" and why they are spoiling for a fight on these issues.

You are absolutely correct I do not want to face (believe) that 'perceived actions and words' supports racism against a group of americans. Isn't judging based on 'perceived anything' just the type of racism those doing the perceiving here fight against for their "own"?

Perceptions are reality to those that hold them -- unfortunately, it seems, those holding the perceptions in this case are the ones that need to change -- I cannot change how you perceive me if your perceptions are based on my race or your past.

Anonymous said...

Bingo, 4:32!

How amusing to learn and how apropo it is that J58 "works" at the Durham courthouse.

Too delicious! Kind of hard for J to express the depths of her hate and racism without the aid of those jackass emoticons, however.

sic semper tyrannis

Anonymous said...

Tell me courthouse mama, is the post office on strike? Sounds like someone didn't get their welfare check and food stamps this month.

Anonymous said...

I am not j58. And I am not on welfare as I work at the Courthouse,you racist idiot. Your implication that all black people are on welfare and foodstamps is an example of the racist bilge you people believe and spew out on this blog and others. You people need to face the fact that even when Kim changed her statement on 60 minutes that she still maintained that more than one player used the N word. She definitely said it "echoed". An Echo is a repeat of a statement so all this "one person said it" bulls---t is just an apologia for the fact that more than one person used racial slurs. I have already discussed the heinous cotton shirt comment--reported by a white person(Bissey) so I guess that should have more validity to you all. Race was injected into the case at that time and unfortunately all the pr campaign in the world cannot re-write that fact.

Race was further injected into the case when the change of venue motion was added; change of venue is an old racist trick to find a whiter area to get a white person accused of injuring a black person off. This tactic was used many times in the immediate post civil rights era, when blacks were finally allowed to be on juries and to give evidence in court. The most famous use of it was in the Rodney King case, where the trial was transferred from LA to Simi Valley, an almost all white area and the police officers, despite a video tape, were acquited. The defense made matters worse when saying the reason they wanted a new venue was that they felt jurors would be attacked in Durham, an outrageous slur on the community. There has not been one case in the Durham county files of jurors being attacked after a verdict( there has been witness intimidation but that has been seen rarely and was involving gangs).

Also to the ignorant person who said Durham was not segregated and that the county just happened to be whiter than the city; this was not always so and when integration was announced there was a large period of white flight to the county and that resulted in the maintaining of the segregation. In Raleigh, by contrast, when integration was announced, the officials quickly made a countywide district( the Wake county public schools) to prevent whites in Raleigh from doing the same thing and then instituted rules that state Wake county schools' racial demographics must match that of the county as a whole and the result is an integrated school system county wide. Minority children are still the majority of those bused but that cannot be helped. The reason that the schools had to be integrated in the first place was not the separation of the races per se but that the segregated black schools were given torn and dirty books the white children had thown out, were not given enough buses, had physical plants that were not updated at all, etc. The schools were separate but not treated equally and that is why the integration lawsuits went through.

Anonymous said...

Here's my response to Barry Saunders lame ditty:

Oh! Hasn't anyone seen Barry Saunders, that amusing Yo-Bro?
He's trashing the Duke Boys
because of a HO!

The Boys shouldn't get $30 Million, that's what he say,
just give them a Yoo-Hoo and tell
them good day!

Payback's what they want, $10 million apiece, if they don't get
it now the amount will increase.

The strippers they hired did not
get paid, that's just what happens
when Hos don't get laid!

The Boys are not angels, that we
all know but two lousy strippers,
and not even a show.

Now let it be known that payback's
a bitch, but Read, Dave and Evans
will one day be rich!

Carolyn said...

Joan, who ARE these trolls? My god, they're going berserk on this thread!

For a second there, I thought someone must have taken the chicken wings away from Victoria and given her a keyboard instead. Judging from the way her fingers keep slipping off the capital and paragraph keys, she should have wiped the grease off her hands first. (At least that's the charitable explanation for why her writing is so lousy.)

duke09parent said...

If you are not J58, you had the same rhetorical teacher. Since you apparently are familiar with her, no doubt you're a denizen of the batcave.

One of the sad facts of life these days is the power people have given over to the word "nigger". It has a grossly violent racist history. But it has more power now to condemn anyone who uses it and to enrage almost any black person who hears it than it ever has, much more than the 70's, 80's or 90's. I certainly do not defend it's use, but we are now at the point where if a white person uses it, many black folk would happily see that person put in prison for years even if that is the only wrong thing that person has done. So if one or two or three players in the crowd, angry at being ripped off in this cash and dash, used the word, it is just peachy keen to many black folk for any of the players who could be set up to spend a million bucks in legal fees and/or go to jail.

Chesire pointed out early on that any situation that has a particular racial group aligned against another in an angry situation, racial slurs are unfortunately not unusual. Someone in a black group in such a situation will say honky or cracker. Someone in a latino group will say honky or gringo. Someone in a white group may say something racial too. It's bad. It shouldn't happen. But it doesn't yet justify sending someone to jail.

You madam are echoing what Chan Hall said. Cash Michaels tried to argue that few black folk in Durham held those views. You are arguing that many do. Whatever the number is, is too many.

scott said...

Joan --

I am not familiar with Barry Saunders' columns overall, but if the juvenile thought process exhibited in his recent column is any indication of how he thinks in general, then he is too stupid to understand your point.

And what was the editor thinking? Daddykins? Now there's a concept to be taken seriously. What journalistic style manual are they using over at the N & O?

Nonetheless, what you wrote needed to be written. You wrote it, and you wrote it well.

Even if Saunders doesn't get it, maybe some other Durham cesspool swimmers, who are slightly less dense, will finally get the lightbulb to come on.

As always, nice work.

gwallan said...

anonymous @2:41 PM said...
And for your information, the blacks in Durham are better off than blacks most places as they have their own banks(had two in fact until they recently merged), their own insurance companies,their own colleges, funeral homes and lots of middle class and college educated blacks and other black businesses.

Excellent. They can contribute to the upcoming settlement.

I'm observing this travesty from Australia. The angst surrounding race in the US is astonishing to me and, I'm sure, many other Aussies. If Saunders and the troll "contributing" here are any indication Durham is long overdue for a thorough cleaning out.

Anonymous said...

It is ironic you are posting about the angst race caused in the US when Australia has a record of being one of the most RACIST countries of all time with extermination of the Aborigines,forced resettlement of the survivors, forced adoption of aborgine children by whites to try to obliterate the culture, and last but not least the edict that banned the immigration and citizenship of non-whites until the latter half of the 20th century. Of course Australia doesn't have have any race complaints like in the US as you killed off most of the people who would do the complaining. The US, in contrast, killed off the native Americans or placed them on reservations when they would not work for the white man( sounds very similar to Australia). They then imported enslaved Africans. These enslaved people did do the work and so were allowed to survive and their descendants lived long enough to gain equal rights and to complain about continued injustice. Now that blacks are complaining, whites have imported more cheap labor that they hope will not be politically active: the illegal Hispanics currently flooding the southern and western parts of the US. Only the whites are in for a big surprise as the Hispanics are not as docile as they think and are moving into black neighborhoods and it is only a matter of time before they are part of the politics of the area. Once, during the election for DA, they polled Hispanics and they supportee Nifong just like their black neighbors.

gwallan said...

anonymous @7:15 PM

I'd suggest you don't try lecturing an Australian about their history.

Yes there have been evil things happen in every part of the world. They tend to be a consequence of idealogues forcing their will on others often based on narratives and, particularly, stereotypes. Sound familiar.

The difference in Australia is that race is rarely used as a club to batter others into submission. This in a country where, even today, more than half the population was born elsewhere.

Your assertion that the aboriginal population has been "killed off" is quite astonishing. A Koori I work with has been, like me, keeping up to date on the Duke affair. He reckons you need a hug. Personally I believe you are so full of hate that there is simply no room left for truth. Remove that hatred and you are an empty vessel.

gwallan said...

anonymous @7:15 PM

Adendum

Archeologists have found cultural artifacts strikingly similar to those of Australian aboriginals in both North and South America. It is theorised that the early immigrations that populated Australia and the Asian sub continent also extended to the Americas. These groups were subsequently wiped out by the more aggressive American Indians.

Should the Australian Aboriginal now be claiming genocide, and consequent reparation, from the the American Indian?

Anonymous said...

Please do not get on here and pretend that the Australian Aborgines were not systematically butchered much like the Native Americans in the US. Please. Those aborgines that survived are less numerous than they would have been and many have been made to acculturate to the dominant culture. That is a fact and you are just mad that unlike most Americans I know the history of Australia and am able to put you in your place as a hypocrite who was on here trying to pretend that the US is the only place that has racial problems and trying to be superior, which your country is not in any way. At least black people here were not massacred wholesale and given to the dogs like they did in parts of Tasmania and Australia and our country was not founded as a penal colony(Botany Bay).

I am not full of hate but black people in the US did not overcome the Jim Crow crap and gain the freedom and the power we have now to vote and go to school and to get jobs, etc by being silent and "going along with the program". We fought back and demanded our rights and we do not take s--t from anyone now, which is why the racists like yourself and others on this board are irritated and do not want to hear us challenge your b---s---. When we see or hear something racist, you are going to hear about it, whether you like it or not.

Anonymous said...

BTW here are some facts/specifics that I was referring to in my post on Australia's history so you know I am not making up what I said:

1.Aborigines make up only 2.2% of a population of 21 million on the 2001 census. The vast majority of Australians are of European descent. Many of the Aborgines are of mixed race.

2.In the Australia Bureau of Statistics it is noted that Aborgines have higher rates of imprisonment, unemployment and lower levels of education than most Australians and their life expectancy is 17 years lower than other Australians. Sounds familar to the statistics on black Americans and the aborgines were similarly victims of segregation--theirs lasted until 1973

3.Tasmanian aborgines were wiped out; less than 300 were left in 1833 and the last full blooded one died in 1876. The genocide of the Tasmanian Aborgines is called the Black War in Australia and Tasmania

4. The immigration policy I was referring to was called the White Australia policy and it officially ended in 1973

4.The forced adoption of Aborginal children is known as the Stolen Generation and most of the children taken were of mixed race. Like the US, non-white women were used sexually and racially mixed children were the result even though the vast majority of posters on this blog and others deny something like that happened in the US( it definitely did)

5.In our Australian hypocrite's defense,discussion of these events is somewhat controversial in Australia and the debate on how to discuss his country's racism is called the History Wars. Australia has, unlike the US, apologised officially to the Aborgines and had a reconciliation of sorts. In the US, Virgina shocked the nation by apologising for slavery but an official federal apology has not been forthcoming

gwallan said...

anonymous

At no stage did I say that we don't have problems. What I did wish to point out is that the politicisation of race as an issue is making it impossible to solve any of these problems in the US. Regardless of our history and our Prime Minister's liking for wedge politics Australia is not an inherently racist country. And race is not used as a battering ram in the way it clearly is in the US.

I could equally come up with a list of outrageous things done to my ancestors. Unlike you and many others I do not hold all of the sons guilty of the sins of their forefathers but rather concentrate on fixing the issues we face now.

There is nobody alive now who participated in or created any of the things you list. Your focus on events of the past locks you into that past while you undoubtable consider yourself a "progressive". It has you looking for scapegoats and, where there are none who can be held responsible, leaves you blaming the innocent. Anybody will do as long as they are the right colour or nationality or gender. Sound familiar?

Anonymous said...

1.you tried to imply that Australia had no racial problems and you counted on the fact that most people in the US do not have a good grasp of history and would accept your b---s---t statement on face value. However, you are not dealing with a Koori or a typical US person either, you are dealing with a middle classs Durham black who was educated by John Hope Franklin himself on history so I showed you up. And I rephrse my statement: you do not have much racial dissent in Australia because....you do not have that many other races there and the main ones who could complain are the Aborgines and they make up only 2.2% of the population. Contrast that to the 13% of the US that is black and the 15%+ that is Hispanic(itself a mixed race ethnic group as Hispanics can be of any color).The aborgines statistics above seem to belie the Australia is equal, etc that you are trying to project, though, and show the after effects of racial segregation. The longevity statistic is especially telling.

2.I focus on the present as well and like most US whites you try to pretend that past events do not impact us now or that whites now do not somehow benefit from the misdeeds of their ancestors. They did benefit and still do, especially in the US, where the lack of inherited wealth despite creation of the wealth during slavery and Jim Crow still impacts blacks whereas whites had inherited wealth based on the slave trade, shipping, cotton, tobacco and other cash crops, and later unequal wages from job exclusions and the peonage with the sharecropper system, etc. The current generation of whites benefitted from all that( and still do as the weath is inherited) and yet pretend all that did not happen; the classic white trope is "I did not own slaves, etc," knkowing full well that great great granpa in new England worked for the XYZ shipping company and they built the slave ships and they got rich from it and the money in their trust fund was handed down from those activities or their mother worked at the local cotton mill that would not take black workers and so they had a better standard of living due to that fact. Yet that same white person can say they never benefitted from segregation or slavery. Right.

Similarly in Australia, the land rights of the Aborgines were not recognised either so they did not profit from any land taken that they may have occupied. People in Australia benefit from that land everyday.

So even if you yourself did not participate, you benefit from the effects and your denial of it is part of the problem. You are just irritated someone called you out on it.

Anonymous said...

6:31 --

And all this affects the fact that the players were falsely accused of things they didn't do, and that idiots like you are even now repeating long-disproven slanders against them, how? Oh, that's right -- it doesn't.